If winchester closes,will there ammo line and brass be gone too?What will happen to the 270wsm and 300,325wsm?What about the new CT bullet?Should wsm owners go out and buy a bunch of brass up?What do you think will happen now?

As was mentioned in the Gunsmithing forum, Winchester rifles "AIN"T". It was owned by a Belgian group and manufactured under the name USRAC. Winchester ammunition is still being produced by OLIN and will probably continue to be produced. However, it may be somewhat difficult for them to produce "new" cartridge designs when they don't have the "Winchester" rifles to chamber them in. There is hope that someone will buy the New Haven plant as well as the right to produce them under the name "Winchester".

Just called Browning/Winchester customer service...

They are finishing what is in the production runs now.. and that is it..

the Model 70, Model 94 and 1300 shotgun are officially history....



This is as bad as the news that Hillary Clinton just survived a heart attack and was elected President of the USA.....

Well so much for the WSMs... at least Browning will be making them I guess....

I am torn between shocked and friggin Pissed.....

I need to go kick the ass of some anti gun nut, just to blow off a little steam!

Whats this scary word you are saying? Is Wnchester history? What happened? I have not heard way up here in snowy Alberta Canada.Fill me in please.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Hunter:
Whats this scary word you are saying? Is Wnchester history? What happened? I have not heard way up here in snowy Alberta Canada.Fill me in please.

They're done like dinner as of March 31, 2006. There's a couple of threads on the Political Forum that have the details.

Winchester will close its doors on 3/31 if no buyer is found. See the attached from the local New Haven TV station. It could be the end of an era.

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=4373299

Scout Master 54

Hey, after the inital culture shock I got, and the resistance to go down town and find some anti gun liberal to beat the crap out of just to appease my anger.... ( not really, but good for effect)....I got a twinge of hope that popped into my head....

Since its too well established a name to pass by...Maybe someone like Legacy Sports will purchase Winchester, instead of importing some of those Rossi Lever Actions and will add the Model 70 to handling Howas....

I also like the idea of them doing the options on Winchesters that they are doing with Howas.....

Now that has some real appeal... maybe there is an upside to this...or if Model 70s are made in Japan, like Brownings are... then the QC issues that have been plaguing them lately might just be a thing of the past once again....

I'd like to see it back where one could buy barreled actions from Winchester like you use to be able to do....

( kind of sound like a kid at the orphanage that is dreaming of a wish list for his new adoptive parents aren't I??? oh well... ) some has to do it!

cheers
seafire

I wouldn't be too surprised if ATK bought the "Winchester" name...they have been buying everything else...

seafire,
If you see an anti give him a kick up the pants for me too! Dont miss the opportunity, they wouldn't!
Cheers...
Con

USRAC died from its own incompetence. You guys can blame anti-gunners/PETA/Sarah Brady/Chuckie Schumer all you like, but the fact remains that I know of no single lawsuit where US Repeating Arms Company was named as a defendant.

This is what happens when you destroy a good product with piss poor attention to quality. Capitalism at its best: please the market or die.

Excuse the language but damnit. I was so impressed with the out of the box accuracy of my model 70 in 300wsm that I want a 7mm08 in one also and maybe a 22-250. Money is tight around here so it doesnt look like I will be able to come up with the money to buy maybe one more (7mm08) before they stop. I guess now there will be a rush to buy and they will be so expensive (LIKE COLT) they average joe cant afford em.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
USRAC died from its own incompetence. You guys can blame anti-gunners/PETA/Sarah Brady/Chuckie Schumer all you like, but the fact remains that I know of no single lawsuit where US Repeating Arms Company was named as a defendant.

This is what happens when you destroy a good product with piss poor attention to quality. Capitalism at its best: please the market or die.

I agree! Other factors might have contributed to their demise, but the fact remains -they screwed themselves.

I agree with the above. USRAC killed itself.

You cannot continually change your product in order to reduce production costs and still market a good product.

"Winchester" has had too many changes. They started throwing "Browning" options on their rifles left and right, and a ton of other "after-market" stuff, that the fine OLD Winchester 70 is looking better and better by the hour, instead of the year!

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Olin drop their "Winchester" products as well. Powders being made in single batch lots and then discontinued, 100 "new" calibers each year, none of which do anything the old ones don't do. And quality of their cases and primers has gone downhill rapidly.

USRAC has the rights to the Winchester name until next year, after that it reverts back to Olin Corp. if no deal is made. I fear that some off shore company will buy the name and pass off some Chinese or Turkish made junk as Winchester. We could do an MBA paper on all the reasons for their demise but a shrinking market, mass merchandisers and strong foreign competition dosn't help. GM and Ford can certainly empathise and if they are not smart could follow too.

Lets hope a domestic company with it's act together is willing tp put it back together again.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
This is as bad as the news that Hillary Clinton just survived a heart attack and was elected President of the USA.....


I am torn between shocked and friggin Pissed.....John, you should be pissed the way our ecconomy is going down the tubes. This is just an effect and a harbinjure of what's to come. Hilary is a popular target but trying to be as objective as I can I know she isn't the cause. The last 5 automated and semi automated production lines I helped design and build were sent to Malasia, Mexico and China by astute American patriots. It's all Money and greed ,John.

I need to go kick the ass of some anti gun nut, just to blow off a little steam! Scwartzenegger, Boxer, and Fienstien would be a good start, John, but it ain't going to solve this problem!!!!!!!!

roger

Companies generally get what they EARN in the market. Aldo is doing pretty good isn't he? Red W wasn't even playing.

Better buy the pre 64 M70 you've always wanted soon. I suspect prices are going to increase on any used version of the Model 70.

I just reserved one today.It is my first Winchester.I Have wanted one more than any other rifle but strangely never bought one.That might be because I felt that when I would buy a Winchester I would go all the way and get a nice custom piece.This latest news is making Winchester much more attractive to me.

I am sad about the demise of Winchester, but not suprised. Seems nobody wanted the alphabet soup magnums except the hack gunwriters that got them for free to play with.
Savage, Weatherby, Marlin even lowly NEF, know their customers and cater to them. Winchester got lost in their own PR and paid dearly for it.


Now I'll never get the M70 Safari I've wanted for years.

ZM

There goes all there short fat crap as well. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
USRAC died from its own incompetence. You guys can blame anti-gunners/PETA/Sarah Brady/Chuckie Schumer all you like, but the fact remains that I know of no single lawsuit where US Repeating Arms Company was named as a defendant.

This is what happens when you destroy a good product with piss poor attention to quality. Capitalism at its best: please the market or die.

HP:

YOU are just a real touchy feely sort of Teddy Bear kinda guy, aren't ya?

Ya born that way???, or do you have to work at it???

Do you ever say anything 'good' about anything?

Just my observation....

seafire

Just for fun I pulled out a few pre-64 model 70s and compared them to one another as well as to the modern classic. The story of Winchester's decline with the pre-64 model 70 is well known and when post-war models are compared side by side with late model production, the differences are subtle, but obvious. What is striking however, is the attention to detail paid to any pre-64 when compared to the classic.
One must ask, just how is it then that Winchester didn't learn from their past mistakes? If the days of high overhead, antiquated equipment, and old fashioned production methods brought an end to the original model 70, why is it then that such a thing was allowed happen today? There are in my opinion anyway, only a few reasonable answers and all were calculated desisions made by management: cessation of domestic production for the preparation of overseas production and higher profit, a play page borrowed from Colt where one is in the business of market speculation and customer manipulation, or plain old fashioned stupidity and greed.
When all is said and done, there is a sour taste in my mouth that brushing alone can not removed.
P.S. Thanx for letting me vent.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Just for fun I pulled out a few pre-64 model 70s and compared them to one another as well as to the modern classic. The story of Winchester's decline with the pre-64 model 70 is well known and when post-war models are compared side by side with late model production, the differences are subtle, but obvious. What is striking however, is the attention to detail paid to any pre-64 when compared to the classic.
One must ask, just how is it then that Winchester didn't learn from their past mistakes? If the days of high overhead, antiquated equipment, and old fashioned production methods brought an end to the original model 70, why is it then that such a thing was allowed happen today? There are in my opinion anyway, only a few reasonable answers and all were calculated desisions made by management: cessation of domestic production for the preparation of overseas production and higher profit, a play page borrowed from Colt where one is in the business of market speculation and customer manipulation, or plain old fashioned stupidity and greed.
When all is said and done, there is a sour taste in my mouth that brushing alone can not removed.
P.S. Thanx for letting me vent.

Well said ! roger

quote:

Originally posted by blackbearhunter:
If winchester closes,will there ammo line and brass be gone too?What will happen to the 270wsm and 300,325wsm?What about the new CT bullet?Should wsm owners go out and buy a bunch of brass up?What do you think will happen now?

I do not expect the imminet potential desmise of USRAC to have anuy effect at all on Winchester ammo or components. USRAC was only licensed by OLIN to use the Winchester name on guns made by USRAC. There has been no real business relationship between Winmchester (OLIN) and USRAC since Olin stopped making guns a number of years age.......

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Hunter:
Whats this scary word you are saying? Is Wnchester history? What happened? I have not heard way up here in snowy Alberta Canada.Fill me in please.

USRAC the gunmaker, is about to go belly-up, unless a buyer who will continue the operation is found right away! But the ammo maker, Winchester/Olin, is NOT affected by this......

quote:

This is what happens when you destroy a good product with piss poor attention to quality. Capitalism at its best: please the market or die.

"Economic Darwinism" at its' best....... Survival of the competitive!

I am disappointed to see those that blame Winchester entirely for there demise, certainly they share a good bit of the responsibility for the loss. It should be recognized that Winchester is a symbol of what is occurring all too frequently in the US these days, our domestic manufacturing base is being eroded business by business and going over seas. Far too many of us have lost good manufacturing jobs only to see them replaced by lower paid service sector jobs. It is difficult for Winchester to pay union scale wages and benefits to compete against arms produced off shore with lower cost labor. Please, I am not against unions nor good wages, we all need them to provide for our families and live to a good standard. But the fact remains with higher costs many companies cannot compete in a global market. (How many of you had noted that Maytag escaped being purchased by the Chinese only by a whisker, and there is no domestic TV’s made in the US and we could go on and on).

So you want an M-70 like the good o’le days? To get that degree of fit and finish requires hours and hours of hand fitting, that was once possible when your grandpa worked for 50¢ an hour. Today you can get it if that’s what you want and it’s called a custom gun and be prepared to spend $ six figures or more. Winchester was out to produce a gun for Joe citizen to take to his deer camp and yet remain affordable. At one time all of the firearms manufacturers could afford that level of detail; look at the pre war Mauser, Bakers, Lefever, Ithica, and Remington etc. Not so easy today and still remain competitive. At least to my mind Winchester did compete quality wise right there with Rem. & Ruger.

We can certainly can speak toward Big W’s poor marketing choices, redesigning the M-70 action and retaining the M-70 name for their step child, was dumb and it was sentenced hence forth to comparison. (Ford learned the same hard lesson with the reintroduced Mustang). Of late they abandoned traditional calibers and moved more to the WSM concept that was obviously not their salvation either. The sought Union concessions but did not increase sale this did little to enhance longevity.

We have become a nation of consumers and we are watching our domestic manufacturing base move off shore, if we don’t reverse that trend we may all end up working for “Big Box Martâ€. I don’t have the solutions and I trust that there are others out there that do, but I feel the loss when a company deep in tradition closes its door as we are all poorer for it.

Scout Master 54

Scout Master 54

I agree with you totally! Thanks for the perspective. Maybe we could all take time to figure our future existence and our children's future. Mart Mart stores is not always a good thing! I salute You!

I'd say it's not over until it's over. A bunch of other gun makers have gone bust a few times over the years (didn't Savage too?) A lot of them come back with new management and a better product and then continue on.

It's always been a boom, bust kind of business anyhow. Guns last a long time and end up being a cyclical business.

quote:

Originally posted by ricciardelli:
I wouldn't be too surprised if ATK bought the "Winchester" name...they have been buying everything else...

News and Press Releases



Winchester signs license agreement with Hodgdon Powder Company


1/30/2006
Winchester Ammunition and Hodgdon Powder Company, two great names in reloading, are proud to announce a license agreement that is sure to excite every handloader. Winchester® branded reloading powders will now be licensed to Hodgdon Powder Company. Hodgdon Powder Company is the industry leader in supplying reloading powders. This partnership positions Winchester brand powders to best support the reloading customers’ needs.

You will still be able to find your favorite Winchester powder, from 231 to Super Target, with the consistent supply and support you are accustomed to from Hodgdon Powder Company.

After a brief transition period, Hodgdon Powder Company will assume responsibility for all orders, shipments, customer and technical service, including loading data for all Winchester branded reloading powders. Winchester Ammunition will continue to be your full line provider of world class ammunition and reloading components.

Hodgdon, IMR and now Winchester gunpowders owned by the same company? Kinda monopolistic. I wonder if the government will intervene?

Still, it has nothing to do with the gunmaker in New Haven.

Not as long as there is ADI, ATK and Western Powder.

i'd like to have gotten a wichester bolt rifle but who can afford it when gas prices are so d@mn high... exxon moble is killing this country with those record obscene profits...... to bad we all gotta get around by vehicles using oil products.................

LIFE IS SHORT........

I may be wrong, but I still think Winchester died when the Herstal Group bought both Winchester and Browning. I think we are just becoming aware of it.

I also think the Models 70 & 94 will be back, under Browning labels, made in Japan by the same company that has already manufactured the "Winchester/Browning" Models 52, 63, '71, '85, '86, and '95.

They'll cost the Belgian cartel less (no unions, no old plant to maintain), and they will cost US more, as they'll be intentionally made in small runs. Quality control, on the other hand, may actually improve.

Just plain old international corporate business at play again.

quote:

Originally posted by tasco 74:
i'd like to have gotten a wichester bolt rifle but who can afford it when gas prices are so d@mn high... exxon moble is killing this country with those record obscene profits...... to bad we all gotta get around by vehicles using oil products.................

LIFE IS SHORT........

Points to ponder..... Unions, Pension Plans, Mutual Funds, Large Investors, and Small Investors all are owners of Exon Mobile.

just read in another area winchester has stopped their powder concerns also and sold out to hodgdon.

at this rate the american firearms manufactureers will be down to one company maybe two.

This concerns me. What happens if ATK bows to UN pressure and stops selling powder for civilian use?