Im fairly new to reloading rifle calibres and struggling with COAL against powder charge. which has more to do with accuracy? should i seat the bullets far out as i can which the magazine allows me and adjust powder charge or keep powder charge the same and adjust COAL? I have tried both of my manuals suggestions with no accuracy at all.
Please and thank you from a new member.

Don't struggle. OAL is NOT a big issue for beginners. Either seat according to the book OR your magazine length OR to the crimp grove and develop your charge for best grouping. Then go have fun.

Later, you may want to move towards the lands in maybe 5 or 10 thou steps to find what your rifle actually likes FOR THAT LOAD. Loud claims to the contrary, seating close to the lands in a factory hunting rifle using common bulk bullets is rarely a help for accuracy.

Thanks Jim for your reply. im gonna try 4 sets of 4 cartridges with same Coal and 1 grain increments today.

Agree with Jim C. here. In addition, I might suggest that you begin load workup using the "Accurate Powder" and powder charge in the manual you're referencing. I usually begin there when starting out on a new, to me, caliber/cartridge.
Good luck & enjoy.
Bear in Fairbanks

Im loading 270 winchester. Lyman 49th suggests H4831 for 130 gr. at min. 52 gr and max 58 gr. COL of 3.25. The 58 gr. was most accurate with a group of 1.7" at 100 yardswith a coal of 3.36". Any higher then 58 grains (which i did try with no pressure) the group got larger. Now my barrel in my model 70 xtr is 20". The lyman book tested with a 26' barrel. Now question is, the H4831 is the powder burn rate too slow for a shorter barrel and would i get a better group possibly with a faster burn rate such as 4350 or W760?

Yes.

regardless of what you read posted in cyberspace, 1.7" groups aren't to be sneezed at. Lotsa meat brought home with rifles that don't do that well.
Another point, as you shoot more, your bench technique should also improve which will improve your groups.
As posted, don't get too wound up in the minor, aesoteric facets of reloading. Learn to make good, basic ammo before you try anything else. Pick a OAL based on your chamber or magazine, or what's in the book and stick with it. While adjusting the bullet jump may fine tune a already good load, I've never seen it turn a spray and pray load into a one-holer. So don't fret about that part of reloading too much.

Hi freak,welcome to the reloading world.How much powder you use and COAL have nothing to do with accuracy,IMO.Here is what you need to shoot one hole groups all the way to the moon.1-a good barrel/bore,2-JB paste(brush and patch)3-tight guard screws and solid bedding.

Chasing accuracy can be quite challenging and a long the way you will become a better shooter from more trigger time and developing good habits. Before you get bummed out by not getting miracle groups from your load recipes you should really get your rifle bedded properly. If not you will have a great load this week that is terrible next week. Accuracy comes from controlling the variables so start with getting the action and stock locked up tight to eliminate subtle movements that affect accuracy. This will help reduce the guess work in loading.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Hi freak,welcome to the reloading world.How much powder you use and COAL have nothing to do with accuracy,IMO.Here is what you need to shoot one hole groups all the way to the moon.1-a good barrel/bore,2-JB paste(brush and patch)3-tight guard screws and solid bedding.

Well, yo ucan have all that & still not have a good shooting load.
What I have learned over the years is that all rifles & bbls are diff. WHat works in mine may shoot like crap in yours. Like Dwight said, your technique off the bench is really important. Then the rifle/scope combination. Then the load. I use factory ammo when possible as a benchmark. If the best yo ucan do with that rifle & factory ammo is 2", handloads, may not do much better.
The 20" bbl really has little to do with the accuracy potential of a given bullet/powder IMO. You need to limit variables asmuch as possible. Use a good bullet known for accuracy & pick a powder that gives yo uthe vel range you want. Work up in 1/2gr increments form midrange to max. Usually you will find accuracy in a range of powder charges. You didn't say what bullets you are using, but the best rifle & load won't shoot a poor bullet well.
In the end, some rifles just won't shoot sub MOA, regardless fo bedding or load dev. A poor bbl is just that. They are rare, but does happen. Bedding is often the culprit of poor accuracy. Snug the action screws, check the scope mounts & go shoot some factory ammo.

Finding an accurate load for a popular cartridge is not a difficult thing.There is no need to go experimenting with all sorts of powders.Plenty of classic loads listed all over the place that will shoot accurately in most modern and well maintained rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by mphfreak:
Im fairly new to reloading rifle calibres and struggling with COAL against powder charge. which has more to do with accuracy? ...

You first Develop your Loads using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method. And (as should be said in that Link) after you locate the best Harmonic Node, then you Fine Tune the Final Load by adjusting the Seating depth.

There is no such thing as a Universal Load which works well in all rifles for a specific Cartridge. If you by into that foolishness, then forget my post.

Best of luck to you.

Well gentlemen, I had some varget on the shelf. Thinking about my barrel length i thought hey im learning here lets try a faster burn rate powder. I gave it a try. I started with medium load and worked up to max and made a few over max. I shot 3 holes all touching each other at 100 yards with 1.5 grains over max in my manual. With the medium powder loads i had a 1.2 inche group and every grain i added i shrunk those groups. I was using 110 sierra pro hunters with COAL of 3.205. And my barrel is 22" not 20, sorry. http://i1128.photobucket.com/a...5/mphfreak/group.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by mphfreak:
Well gentlemen, I had some varget on the shelf. Thinking about my barrel length i thought hey im learning here lets try a faster burn rate powder. I gave it a try. I started with medium load and worked up to max and made a few over max. I shot 3 holes all touching each other at 100 yards with 1.5 grains over max in my manual. With the medium powder loads i had a 1.2 inche group and every grain i added i shrunk those groups. I was using 110 sierra pro hunters with COAL of 3.205. And my barrel is 22" not 20, sorry. http://i1128.photobucket.com/a...5/mphfreak/group.jpg

..."and every grain I added shrunk those groups" -you just started reloading and you already learned enough to come to that conclusion-That is not why those groups shrank IMO.It could've been from various factors of which you may never know.

Explain what you are trying to say then instead of an open comment like so. The load is the only variable changed so please explain to me what did bring the groups together. I started at 49.4 grains and had a 3 inche group. by the time i shot the 53.4 grain cartridges the group tightened right up. I allowed the barrel to cool every set of 3 shells and the moon and the stars were not aligned.
jay

I'll tell you what,next time your out fire 4 sets of three with the same powder charge and you might find that the groups still shrunk.If you don't you might do so later on.Groups open and shrink with every shooting session without any change in our loads or any change in anything-at least that we are aware of.Anyways-good shooting!

Jay are you shootin in the extreme cold up there in the northland?
my 270 normally shootd 130/140gr loads to about 1" moa. 1 1/4" 1 1/2" are not uncommon.
If it as cold as I think it is i would be shakin so bad I be luck to hit the paper.
Most of my rifles shoot better as the charge is increased.
varget h380 and h414 work pretty good for me
I hve never tried light bullets in the winter.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hivelosity:
Jay are you shootin in the extreme cold up there in the northland?
my 270 normally shootd 130/140gr loads to about 1" moa. 1 1/4" 1 1/2" are not uncommon.
If it as cold as I think it is i would be shakin so bad I be luck to hit the paper.
Most of my rifles shoot better as the charge is increased. varget h380 and h414 work pretty good for me
I hve never tried light bullets in the winter.[/QUOTE

Its about 0 celsius. Been rather nice weather this week. Ive got an excelent rest with a 24 power scope. good to hear you have had decent groups with the faster powders. Ive got another dozen loaded up the same but it was rather windy today so ill try tomorrow. Im gonna try the 130 and 140 later this week with varget. Jay
]

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by mphfreak:
Im fairly new to reloading rifle calibres and struggling with COAL against powder charge. which has more to do with accuracy? ...

You first Develop your Loads using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method. And (as should be said in that Link) after you locate the best Harmonic Node, then you Fine Tune the Final Load by adjusting the Seating depth.

There is no such thing as a Universal Load which works well in all rifles for a specific Cartridge. If you by into that foolishness, then forget my post.

Best of luck to you.

+1

Went out to help a buddy today.
[LIST]

shot an Audette with the '06, RL17, 180 GK

picked a node, loaded in the middle for seating depth test

1/2" 3-shot at 200 yards was the result (1/4 MOA)

Besides the Audette Ladder, here is another method to find the most accurate load.

Dan Newberry's OCW

Thanks for the helpful hints guys. i appreciate it.
Jay