A posted question by Prairie Bomber got me screwing around this afternoon, trying forever to clean up my reload bench.

Load too much and then go out and shoot it.



Eldequello gave a response that indicated factories get whatever powder. I am not sure, but I always respect his experience and opinion.



So what I did was disassemble some factory ammo I have had laying around. I have not shot any factory ammo for over 5 yrs since I started reloading all the time.



I do as I described in the post by Prairie Bomber. Measure the amount of powder, take a look at published velocity by th manufacturer and cross reference it with several manuals.

Lymans and Hodgdon's 26 th are great for that. but also use Nosler, Sierra's , Hornady's etc.



What surprised me is that I sure think that IMR sales a lot of 4350.



If the powders are not what WE on the street can buy, then the powders listed, compared to the measured charge weight and info will duplicate the factory velocity. ( published, not chronographed, but you should be just fine on the pressures).



For anyone who is interested here is what I compiled.



243:

Remington 80 grain SP: 47.5 grains / IMR 4350

Remington 100 grain SP: 44 grains/ IMR 4350

Federal Premium, 100 Grain Partition/ 40 grains/IIMR 4350



270:

Remington 150 gr SP: 53.5 grains/IMR 4350



30/06

Remington 165 gr SP: 53.5 grains/ H414

Remington 220 gr RN: 50 grains/ IMR 4350

Federal 220 gr RN: 52.5 grains/IMR 4350

Winchester 180 gr SP: 57.0 grains of W 760

Remington 150 gr SP: 55.5 grains of H 414

Federal 165 gr SP Premium: 55 grains of H414 or W 760

Remington 178 gr Extended Range: 53.2 grains of H 414

Hornady Light Magnum 165 gr BT: 64.5 grains of WXR(?)

The last one is the one I am not sure of, as I don't shoot WXR but the amount in the case was 64.5 grains



300 Win Mag:

Federal Supreme, 200 gr Trophy Bonded: 65.8 grains of IMR 4350.





The above info is just an observation. I thought some might be interested in this info. I sure am, but let it be known that this is a very educated guess.

Based on volume, published velocities and published load data by the manufacturers ( Hodgdon and IMR) for the like velocities with the like bullet weights.



This is strictly a REFERENCE, for the new people.



If I do anymore of this, I will post it.



Cheers.

I have always heard that the big companies use powder that isn't available on the street.

In any case, I went all the way back to Speer #8, that people are always complaining about using loads that are too high to be safe, and the max load of IMR 4350 with an 80 gr bullet in .243 was 45.0 gr at 3425 fps in a 22" barrel Mod 70. Speer #7 agrees with #8 on the max load. Speer #10 says 45.5 gr at 3288 fps in a 22" Ruger 77. Speer #13 shows 45.0 gr at 3226 fps in a 22" Ruger 77 MKII.

Then we have to ask if we are sure DuPont IMR 4350 is exactly the same as IMR IMR 4350. With lot to lot variation, I doubt it. I'm pretty sure Speer didn't use the same lot of IMR 4350 over the 30 year span those 4 manuals covered and that lot to lot variation contributed to the differences we see in all of those 22" barrels.

Seafire - my understanding is that the Hornady Light magnums use Vihtavouri 500 series powders.

hey - I could be wrong, but I can duplicate the loads using N540/550/560

D

The VV manual states that N130 is the powder used for .22 and 6mm PPC factory loadings. Not quite sure which factory brand they refer to - Sako, maybe??
- mike

Factories may very well use a powder that is identical to, or very close to, a canistered number. I once shot some very accurate 180-grain Rem. factory .30/40 cartridges, so I pulled a couple to see if I could figure out what the powder was. It weighed 47 grains, and looked like IMR 4350. The ballistics of that load were about what you would have gotten from 47 grains of 4350, per several manuals!



However, if I were to reassemble some cartridges using powder taken from that lot of ammo, I would have felt safe ONLY TO USE IT IN the .30/40 with Remington cases, primers, and 180 grain bullets and with no more than 47 grains of it. Why? Because although all indications were that it was IMR 4350, it could be trusted to perform like IMR 4350 ONLY in that cartridge/brass with those primers and bullets.



As we all know, burning characteristics of many powders can vary considerably based on case capacity, loading density, bullet weight, primer type, etc. etc. For example, H414, WW 760, and the various 4350 powders all seem to perform about the same in medium-capacity/caliber cases, but when the cases get bigger or smaller, and bores get bigger or smaller, the performance of these powders begins to spread out or even exchange positions as far as apparent burning rates are concerned.



The old, (GOOD!!) gone but not forgotten H205 used to give velocities equal to IMR 4350 in certain cartridges like the .30/40 Krag and .30/'06, but H205 gave significantly less pressure at the SAME VELOCITY as IMR 4350 with heavy bullets. This was also true in my particular old 8X60 RS double rifle. I used to get 2620 FPS with 200-grain Nosler bullets from H205 at acceptable pressures, but there is NO WAY I would attempt to reach that velocity with that bullet using IMR 4350! (Or any other of today's powders that I know about.) Pressures would be way too high for that old J.P. Sauer!

Derek,

Great Update. I have to admit, I am deluxed out with Hodgdon, Winchester, IMR and Alliant ( Reloader) powders in my cabinet. However, I do not shoot V.V. powders as their availability is not good where I live. I can get some driving 80 miles from home, but that is too much effort when all the other stuff suites my needs. I love anything Finnish, but I don't use those powders.

That is why I highlighted that I was not sure, and listed the charge weight I found in the case.

Cheers.

Paul,

All good points. I do like to use old reload manuals as references. I find a lot of consistency tho, and the info you gave only gets concerned when someone is pushing max loads.

Another point is that two different 80 grain bullets might have totally different load bearing surfaces.

Example being that the Federal 243 with a 100 grain Nosler had 40 grains of what I believe to IMR 4350, and Remington Loads 44 grains in their load with their 100 grain bullet.

Yet go to a 30/06 with a 220 grain bullet, both powders appeared to be IMR 4350 again, but then Remington Used 50 grains of it, and Federal Used 52.5 grains, but both claim the same velocity. Once again, I am not sure who is making the 220 grain RN for each manufacturer.

This was really posted as a potential interest to anyone else.
A post got me going on it, and since I don't shoot factory ammo, but have a batch of boxes still just collecting dust, thought I would disassemble some and check out the charge weights, etc.

THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE LOAD INFORMATION FOR ANYONE TO USE AS A RECOMMENDATION. That is what reload manuals are for.

The charges listed did closely follow the load info I looked at in a IMR load reference that they distribute for free.