Hi guys,

I'm after some advice on starting loads using pre-primed IVI (NATO) cases - my Nosler manual suggests starting at- or below-minimum due to heavier brass being used in military cases. My Speer #12 manual says they used IMI military cases, and their loads won't need to be reduced. All my other manuals are silent on the military brass issue. I'm going to be loading Hornady V-Max and A-Max with Win 748 and/or ADI Benchmark 2 (same as Hodgdon Benchmark) powder, and some suggestions on the relevance of the Nosler advice would be appreciated....

Thanks,
Bruce

I would heed the Nosler advice. I have loaded quite a few thousand 223 military brass and they are correct. If you note the Speer manual their loads are reduced when they use the same powder for the reason of the thicker brass.

I didn't believe it could be true until II loaded some and ran them across the chronograph. The load was scattering groups that should have been 1/2". The great thing about a chronograph is it doesn't lie. These loads were hot!

Long story short, I cut the load by 2 grains and everything is wonderful. I use the military brass exclusively for my progressive reloader because the military brass lasts longer and is more consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.

You stated that this is "pre-primes IVI cases." Does this mean it is unfired? If it is once-fired you need to check to see if you need a small based die to resize it to fit in every gun.

Military brass is wonderfully durable and consistent. My preference in the 06 and the 223 and the 308.

quote:

You stated that this is "pre-primes IVI cases." Does this mean it is unfired? If it is once-fired you need to check to see if you need a small based die to resize it to fit in every gun.

Yes, brand new pre-primed unfired cases - they'll go through a H&K semi-auto, so I doubt I'll ever see many of them again.

Bruce

I've never used anything but military brass in 5.56mm NATO, and some of it varies in weight, some of the British is very heavy.

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:
Hi guys,

my Nosler manual suggests starting at- or below-minimum due to heavier brass being used in military cases. Bruce

G'day, I thought we all were supposed to start at or below minimum?
Never heard of your brand, are they boxer primed?
My ADI brass averaged 94.7 with 2grain variation
My tzz averaged 94.7 also with 1.5 gr. var.
Yet some Sako(20) were all over 100gr.(1.5 Var)
And I've never seen warnings about Sako's.

You may find more brass than you think, one H&K
I saw thru 'em much the same place, way right and forward.
John L.

quote:

G'day, I thought we all were supposed to start at or below minimum?

At minimum, but often manuals state to not go below minimum charges. I checked my Nosler manual after work and it says "...We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."

quote:

Never heard of your brand, are they boxer primed?

Apparently - they're of Canadian origin.

Cheers,
Bruce

Sure but I think the warning on going too low is only for the very slow powders used in the big bottle neck magnums.
Those H&K semi autos sure were some rifles.
JL.

I have loaded a large variety of military; from several sources, and commercial 223 brass with my favourite load (26gn 2206 pushing 55grn HPs) and at 100 yards All groups were around 3/4 inch and within 1/4 inch of my preferred load. I have no arguement with those who differ but am totally satisfied with the results of a couple of hours at the range.
BTW this is an absolute killer load on game.

Was the warning about GI brass a generic warning or was it specific to the .223. I know that 06 and 308 brass is thicker (heavier) but am given to understand that .223 is not. The only variance is between manufacturers.
I have a 1000 or so rounds of 1x GI brass in .223 and when I worked up my load for it, I went about it like any other brass. I have not weighed any of it but my load is @90% of book max for the reason I found a nice accuracy node there.

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:
Hi guys,

I'm after some advice on starting loads using pre-primed IVI (NATO) cases - my Nosler manual suggests starting at- or below-minimum due to heavier brass being used in military cases.

Another question on military brass, I could not get 5.65mm to shoot in a .223 Savage 24V. Something to do with headspace, some think.

Does anybody know for sure?

quote:

Was the warning about GI brass a generic warning or was it specific to the .223.

It's specific to the .223 - on the page headed "Test Information" that details components used in their load development.

Bruce

Still, I reckon I'd start AT their listed minimum and you should be safe as houses. There isn't that much difference in brass.
John L.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
[Does anybody know for sure?

I don't know anything for sure, but I've given up on using Mil brass (I don't use much anyway) as over the years I've heard of some lack of consistancy.

From what I've read on AR recently the headspace should be the same as .223.

It seemed to shoot OK for me but on loading the stuff, some cases were too tight to fit easely into shell holders, many primers would be seated very deep in the primer pockets etc
I never bothered with neck thicknesses etc but I'd be quite happy to use them through a semi auto for plinking whatever.
John L.

quote:

Another question on military brass, I could not get 5.65mm to shoot in a .223 Savage 24V

Was that 5.56 brass or loaded rounds? The brass should be the same dimensions, but (from what I can tell) 5.56 NATO ammunition is loaded to higher pressures than .223 sporting ammo.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:

quote:

Another question on military brass, I could not get 5.65mm to shoot in a .223 Savage 24V

Was that 5.56 brass or loaded rounds? The brass should be the same dimensions, but (from what I can tell) 5.56 NATO ammunition is loaded to higher pressures than .223 sporting ammo.

Bruce

These were as-issued surplus, not reloads. The firing pin did not hit them hard enough for ignition and they all misfired. Reloaded military brass would work, but often separated just forward of the case head ( also happened with 6x45mm reloads after the 24V was rebored ). I only use commercial brass in it nowadays.

TomP, Your confusing us, we started out with empty brass cases, and you (like my wife ) changed the subject, to loaded rounds.

Yes it is apparently quite common for Mil rounds not to fire in some commercial rifles.
Very hard primers is the culprit, and any excess headspace wouldn't help.

I've pulled many mil rounds to get the primers out, replaced them and they then fired OK.
John L.

I use 99% once fired mil. brass. Never had a seperation. A few split necks,but as many times as they have been reloaded, I expected that. (maybe 1 out of 250). Take the crimp off the primer pockets (if needed) and resize.Trim to length and load them up. Bolt gun and Mini 14. No problem! Lots of range pick ups too. All good stuff. Steel cases? Not worth the trouble.