using a three shot ot five shot group to determine accuracy? And why?

Three shot gives you an opinion of the load.

A four shot futher substaniates the load.

A five shot group tell how really good YOU are.

30378, I better get started on numbers 4 and 5! Thanks.

The thin barrels can heat up quick and so on some hunting rifles a three shot group will give an indication of how it will shoot.

To prove the rifle/load/ shooter, with a sporter weight, shoot three, let it cool until you can't feel warmth, then shoot three more. If you can do it over a couple days of similar weather with similar results you've proven your combo.

Long strings of shots in a sporter weight doesn't prove much to me. Most start stringing shots. Nate

One shot at the target each day for 5 days.

Assuming you are looking for hunting accuracy.

4 & 5 will tell you if your loads are consistent and it will also show you if you have a barrel that wanders as it warms up. In my opinion, If you are just working up a load to hunt big game with, 4 & 5 don't really mean anything. Basically, I shoot 5 shot grps with my rifles that I use for varmint or target, my hunting rifles get the 3 shot treatment. Yes, I use a chronongraph. I also shoot groups @ 100,200,300 & 400 yards. I guess you would say that I am anal. But, I have fun...

Thanks alot guys, you been real informative.

3 shots good because you use less bullets and can try more combos of powder and seating depth, 5 shot is good because it humbles you

Are you after big game hunting accuracy or target accuracy? For a typical big game rifle, I've found 3 shot groups sufficient to dial in a load, and I always re-shoot a promishing load a few times to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

Paul, I was more interested in load development for hunting applications. But it would seem that target and hunting accuracy would be closely related.

This has been asked several times on here and it seems that it's usually a tie in 5 shots vs 3 shots. Although it seems most of the hunting rifle guys prefer 3 shot groups.

IMO 3 shots will tell you what your load and rifle will do and 5 shots is telling you what you can do. For instance if you put 3 or 4 through the same hole and you get a bad squeeze or a burst of wind on the 5th and throw it 1" away, that doesn't mean that load is no good.

It's also been said time and time again that "If you can't do it in 3, you sure ain't gonna do it in 5."

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by pocket rocket:
using a three shot ot five shot group to determine accuracy? And why?

I believe in a hunting rifle, one should fire a three-shot group today, and, if it is a good group, fire another next week! This will give you a hint as to how repeatable your first performance might be.

Three shots is fine for hunting accuracy. As previously mentioned do it again and again over several hours for consistancy.

If you really want to know what your rifle groups like use the same target for several three shot groups.

A gun that really shoots 1.25" groups (five shots) can easily give you several three shot groups under an inch.....

quote:

If you really want to know what your rifle groups like use the same target for several three shot groups.

Good Point Vapo.

Another good way is to just stack a new target directly ontop of your older targets and keep stacking them on at each session. That bottom target will show you the overall picture.

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by pocket rocket:
...I was more interested in load development ...

Hey PR, Then the best thing you can do is use the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method for your Load Development. This is basically using single shots in increasing Powder levels on a single target at 300yds and then looking for the Harmonic Clusters.

Once you know where the Harmonic Clusters are located, load up 3 or 5-shots at the same Load and verify your selection was in fact a Harmonic.

Once you've proven it to yourself, switch over to "Cumulative 1-shot Groups" and that will give you the confidence you want.
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After that, I just plink around with the Load on various things at unknown distances, using various Field Positions. And if a Varmit happens to come by - Test the Load.

hunting rifles 3 shot groups

varmit or target 5 shot groups

service rifle 20 shot groups

quote:

Hey PR, Then the best thing you can do is use the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method for your Load Development. This is basically using single shots in increasing Powder levels on a single target at 300yds and then looking for the Harmonic Clusters.

Once you know where the Harmonic Clusters are located, load up 3 or 5-shots at the same Load and verify your selection was in fact a Harmonic.

Once you've proven it to yourself, switch over to "Cumulative 1-shot Groups" and that will give you the confidence you want.
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I couldn't agree more. I've had a couple of deer hold still for 3 shot groups, the first dropping them in a heap. Never quite understood the need for doin' that though, and I don't usually go into the woods with 5 rounds.

There's some discussion in the .22 forum on this that is interesting, at least Brent's part of it is. Check the mile long thread on Saeed's .22 RF accuracy tests...

In my concerted opinion, 3 shots. Invariably, if I go for 5 shots at least 1 is a flyer & that really puts a damper on the ego.

Bear in Fairbanks

I go five, always. Three is fine, if they're all together. If one is separated from the other two, you have a real problem. Would that have been one flyer from a five shot group, or would it have been the start of two groups of three and two, signifying problems? You can't know unless you do five.

Jaywalker

Long ago in a different occupation we did a daily "cold bore shot" drill. It told us where that all important first shot was going to hit. Same target, first shot of the day from a clean, cold bore. Repeat for five days.

Group shooting was based on magazine capacity and intended use. That told us what the barrel would do when it started to get warm. It also tells you about how much stress is on the barrel/action/trigger as they are bedded in the stock.

Multiple three shot groups over time tell you what you need to know about a hunting rifle.

Five shots for a varmint/sniper type rifle.

Ten shots for a target competition rifle, fired under conditions that simulate a match environment.

You will be amazed at what you will learn by doing the cold bore drill. You will learn even more by doing it over the course of a year at different temperatures/humidity.

LD

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Three shot gives you an opinion of the load.

A four shot futher substaniates the load.

A five shot group tell how really good YOU are.

30378 That's very good logic. The shooter always becomes the bigest element of variation in long range hunting. In my opinion 5 and 10 shot groups are much more important to a hunter. It will really answer your questions about what range should I be taking shots at when you start shooting at 300 and 500 yards.

Next big issue shooting freehand.

I agree with 30378. I usualy load 3 shot groups as test loads then load 5 shot groups for any load that shows promise.

This works well for me. But why I really agree with 3038 is the comment that when I shoot a 5 shot group in some instances 1 shot is usually a litlle out of the cluster.

This still places the group under 1 MOA.

Thanks 3038.

Regs,

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Three shot gives you an opinion of the load.

A four shot futher substaniates the load.

A five shot group tell how really good YOU are.