Based on some PMs and some emails... here is some chronographed data for the grand old 30.06 utilizing Unique...

Work up your loads and good load bench discipline is required... so use your heads... don't double charge a case....

Accuracy was great in both test rifles....

cheers
seafire



Powder Tested: Unique

Rifles:

1. Winchester 1917 Enfield: 26 inch barrel
2. Browning A Bolt I : 22 inch barrel.

Primer: CCI Large Rifle

Case: Remington

Bullet: 110 grain Remington RN; Browning A Bolt

10 grs: 1542 fps 15 grs: 1999 fps 20 grs: 2360 fps
11 grs: 1632 fps 16 grs: 2086 fps 21 grs: 2394 fps
12 grs: 1743 fps 17 grs: 2164 fps 22 grs: 2516 fps
13 grs: 1830 fps 18 grs: 2247 fps 23 grs: 2569 fps
14 grs: 1923 fps 19 grs: 2319 fps 24 grs: 2670 fps

Recoil below 15 grains is noticeably lighter…



Bullet: 150 grain Remington SP: Browning A Bolt

10 grs: 1226 fps 15 grs: 1711 fps 20 grs: 2034 fps
11 grs: 1357 fps 16 grs: 1768 fps 21 grs: 2099 fps
12 grs: 1410 fps 17 grs: 1828 fps 22 grs: 2161 fps
13 grs: 1509 fps 18 grs: 1894 fps 23 grs: 2210 fps
14 grs: 1589 fps 19 grs: 1960 fps 24 grs: 2278 fps

Recoil below 15 grains is noticeably lighter…..



Bullet: 165 grain Remington SP: 1917 Enfield

10 grs: 951 fps 15 grs: 1584 fps 20 grs: 1915 fps
11 grs: 1217 fps 16 grs: 1653 fps 21 grs: 1963 fps
12 grs: 1327 fps 17 fps: 1733 fps 22 grs: 2020 fps
13 grs: 1426 fps 18 fps: 1786 fps 23 grs: 2075 fps
14 grs: 1503 fps 19 grs: 1854 fps 24 grs: 2117 fps

Recoil below 15 grains is noticeably lighter….


Bullet 180 grain Remington SP: 1917 Enfield

10 grs: 750 fps 15 grs: 1428 fps 20 grs: 1766 fps
11 grs: 1059 fps 16 grs: 1504 fps 21 grs: 1835 fps
12 grs: 1191 fps 17 grs: 1578 fps 22 grs: 1917 fps
13 grs: 1282 fps 18 grs: 1645 fps 23 grs: 1971 fps
14 grs: 1342 fps 19 grs: 1707 fps 24 grs: 2048 fps

Recoil below 15 grains again, as above…..


Decision was made to start at 24 grains as that charge was listed in a cast bullet manual…..

I worked down from there to 10 grains, as that would give some fairly low velocity near the subsonic level, yet allow for target practice to teach younger shooters, or for just casual plinking….

Recoil of course was very light for a 30.06, especially below 15 grains as noted….

Accuracy will vary in all rifles… but these loads proved to have highly acceptable accuracy in both of the test rifles….

As for potential for deer hunting, my recommendations for bullets would be:

110 grain: Sierra 110 grain HP… 110 grain V Max /Hornady, a 110 grain SP from the major manufacturers….

125/130 grain: Although not tested, this is the bullet weight used in Remington’s Managed Recoil Series…. They use the Remington 125 grain SP…which is fine.. My recommendations tho, would include the 125 grain Ballistic Tip, The Sierra 125 grain SP,
The 130 grain Hornady SP, the 135 grain SSP from Sierra, & the 130 grain FN, the 130 grain HP and the 125 grain TNT from Speer…..and the 130 grain Barnes XLC

150 grain: Any of the Majors 150 grain SPs, or Round Noses, the Ballistic Tip, the Barnes XLC, Speer’s Mag Tip….

165: Same as the 150 series recommendation

180 grain: Same as the 150 Series Recommendation…

Any bullet intended for the 30/30 would also be very useful….

All are recommended based on their ability to open up at lower velocities…

Premium bullets should be avoided based on their being too hard to open up at these lower velocities….The bullets recommended above actually being superior in this application

Since Most Deer are taken at 100 yds or less, almost all of the recommendations should be adequate for a new shooter, given proper shot placement….

This information is supplied for informational purposes only…… anyone using it does so at their own risk…

When handloading proper techniques need to be used and a system worked out, so that a double charge will not occur… it is recommended to put the powder into a case and then seat the bullet, before moving onto the next one….or else, turn your cases upside down until you charge them with powder…

The reduction in recoil is worth the time…..

By Seafire, January 2006



Hopefully the format here at AR will allow this to be read... if not, PM me or email me and I will send you a copy via email...

cheers

Very nice data, I'm always interested in reading about your testing. I do have a few quick questions though. When you work down to velocities around 1000 or so fps, is there any risk in the bullet becoming stuck in the barrel? Do you check after each shot? I have been wanting to mess around with some reduced loads in the calibers I load for, just to try something new. Thanks.

Ken,

I really don't know how low a velocity can go before a round getting stuck in the bore presents itself...I have only had a round stuck in a barrel once.. and that was on a pistol with a 2.5 inch barrel... I ended up with a couple of rounds that had no powder in them evidently....the primer had been enough to cause the bullet to leave the case...

I tested this out in a rifle on a barrel that was about to get replaced but the bullet would not leave the case with just the primer... I tried this with 4 cartridges... in 22.250 with a 55 grain SP bullet... but none left the case....

I have run bullets down to 500 and 600 fps... with no problems...

Pistols run at this velocity all the time....

Normally I check eat shot by either the bullet striking what I am shooting at.. Mainly targets or backstops. when I am chronographing these loads.. anything I carry in the field actually hunting is going faster enough that it is not an issue... 1200 fps or more...

A lot of old blackpowder rounds were only 1000 to 1200 fps any way... Cowboy Action shooting has a 30.30 clocking 1000 to 1200 fps.. with a 160 or 170 grain bullet....Cowboy action 45/70s are that slow or slower...

There are riskes with everything, even factory ammo has given me problems...I blew up a barrel with Winchester factory ammo once....It destroyed the stock.. which winchester replaced at no charge....

Most screw ups occur when someone isn't using his head or common sense... we ALL are guilty of that....

Good luck with any that you may try... I will be posting other data with Unique.. I have plans for the 243, 270, 30.30 and the 8 mm Mauser... and the 223 and 22.250 if I get requests for them... but they are going to yield 22 LR and 22 Mag velocities I can tell everyone ahead of time.....

cheers
seafire

With jacketed bullets around 600 fps is the minimum. They either come out at 600 fps, or stick in the barrel. Why ??. Cast bullets seem to be less liable to stick, but when ??.
Good luck!

I think that lead bullets seal the barrel better than jacketed, thus letting less gas escape, producing higher pressure and increasing the chance for uninterrupted movement.

My general experience with sticking low velocity jacketed bullets in a barrel is that the barrel condition (clean, oiled, cold/hot) determines this. That is you shoot a couple with clean barrel and everything works well then the next shot sticks half down the barrel. Powder does not burn as clean at lower pressures so the barrel fouls rather quickly. Basically just when you think you got yourself a good low velocity load the next shot sticks.

It is a real pain to get the bullet out of the barrel. As you pound the bullet it obturates, that is swells in bore. I have actually had to shoot some out meaning I put a light powder charge in a shell WITHOUT A BULLET, closed my eyes, ducked, said a prayer and pulled the trigger. It worked but that's when I quit experimenting with low velocity.

Now since lead bullets are lubed and softer the barrel variable is not as great and you can get these to work.

Seafire, thanks I'll be trying these out ASAP which unfortunately is months away. Printed and saved...
best regards,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:
I think that lead bullets seal the barrel better than jacketed, thus letting less gas escape, producing higher pressure and increasing the chance for uninterrupted movement.

DUK, obturation using a soft lead bullet will be better than that of a jacketed bullet (especially at the low pressures of reduced loads).

Bullet to bore friction is also greater with jacketed bullets than lead bullets. This is important to keep in mind.

This increased friction really becomes apparent when you get a jacketed bullet stuck in the bore.

I'm not saying a lead bullet stuck in the bore is 'a good thing'...... but it's much easier to deal with!

My recommendation for reduced jacketed bullet loads (rifle) is to keep them at velocities of AT LEAST 900 fps.

Thanks Seafire, I just got back from buying a pound of unique because of these threads I've been reading. I'd been toying with IMR4227 and am happy, but my cheap side likes the greater number of loads per pound.

Seafire this is great work. I did a little analysis of the loads and noticed something. For 165gr and 180gr bullets, if you plot velocity versus grains, the first two point (10gr and 11gr) are very nonlinear. This is not a nit pick as you do not want to operate in the nonlinear region for any velocity/powder combination. The other points are quite linear.

I am going to plot this data against some 1933 data I have for Unique from Hercules. Should be interesting. As my handle implies I like Unique powder.

The test I ran using Unique powder from 1940's to present show amazing consistency on weight basis. In late 1960's Unique was changed from 40% nitroG to 20%. If you check density of the different powders it shows a 20% weight difference, so if you load on weight basis instead of volume basis all is well. I also tested Unique from 0F to 100 F (actual cartridge temp) and there was not a detectable difference. I like this powder.

A 1935 manual titled "Hercules Unique Powder for Rifles" has the following corresponding data for jacketed bullets for 30-06:

110gr 12.0gr : 1700fps : 22400psi
20.5gr : 2375fps : 40000psi

150gr 15.0gr : 1760fps : 28000psi
20.7gr : 2130fps : 40000psi

These seem to match up nicely with Seafire's data. Hercules limit's all 30-06 loads to 40,000psi.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
My recommendation for reduced jacketed bullet loads (rifle) is to keep them at velocities of AT LEAST 900 fps.

Thanks for the recommendation. I shoot the .222, 30/06, 338 and in the future the 9,3x74 at around 2000 fps so I should be quite safe.