It seems like we have an abundance of people just getting started with reloading. I realize some of them are at the stage where they are happy to just get their ammo to fire, as we all did at one time.

And we have a Second Group of reloaders who just "randomly pick" a Load from a Manual, load it up, shoot a few groups, and are happy. They may even go by the "Accuracy Loads" listed in some Manuals and never deviate from what was suggested as a good Load.

But, we are also blessed with a Third Group composed of very skilled Handloaders who have many years of hands-on experience Developing Loads for a specific rifle that shoots amazingly accurate groups.
---

I'm interested in any Handloading Tricks you all are aware of that you believe helps achieve the best possible accuracy.

I realize some things seem trivial and may take a lot of time to do in order to reduce a group size a very small amount - that is fine. People can choose to use what they want and ignore the rest.
---------

I'll kick it off by saying I personally believe "Consistency" in Case Prep is very important to achieving the best possible and repeatable accuracy.

If I know I'm going to have a specific Cartridge for a long time, I buy 300-500 new cases from the same Lot and do a Full Case Prep on them before the first shot is ever fired.

Here is my Case Prep routine:
1. Lube the Case and run it through a Full Length Resizer set to Partial-Full Length Resize(P-FLR) and tumble the Lube off.
2. Square the Primer Pocket.
3. Deburr the Flash Hole.
4. Trim to length.
5. Deburr the Case Mouth outside.
6. Chamfer the Case Mouth inside.
7. Polish the Case Mouth with 0000 Steel Wool wrapped around an old 22cal brush with a couple of twists by hand - no power tool needed.
8. Repeat 1. - 7. for the entire Case Lot.

After my Case Prep, I Weight Sort the entire Lot:

A. Weigh a case to 0.1gr accuracy.
B. Write the weight on a sheet of lined paper - Sheet 1.
C. Put a piece of Scotch "Magic Transparent Tape" on the case(lengthwise) and write the weight on it.
D. Continue A, B and C for the entire lot.
E. Take a separate sheet of paper (Sheet 2) and write the Lighest weight found(from Sheet 1) at the top of the page. Continue down the page in 0.1gr increments until the Heaviest weight(from Sheet 1) is reached.
F. Make a Hash Mark on Sheet 2 by the appropriate weight for each weight recorded on Sheet 1. (Use a Highlighter to cross-off the weights on Sheet 1 as you go, so you can still see it if needed.)
G. Go to a copier and make 5-10 copies of Sheet 2.

Now using Sheet 2, you can break the Cases into any size Lots you desire with many being the same exact weight. You may have 50-100 cases that are exactly the same. And just as many 0.1gr-0.2gr apart.

I might pick 9, 15, 18 or 20 Cases circled for use that are the same weight. Or you may decide having a spread of 1.0gr is perfectly fine in a Lot. (Remember 1.0gr is only 1/7000th of a pound.)

Pick the amount of cases and weight spread "you want" in a Lot.

These Cases are now as "Consistent" from case-to-case as I can make them. One less "variable" to be concerned about for the Best Possible Accuracy.
---

Once I shoot them, if one has a Flier, I mark the case. If it has a Second Flier, it goes into a separate Lot of Cases used for Pressure Testing.
---

So, how about you all? What tricks do you all use when you are developing Precision Handloads?

I pretty much follow your routine with brass.
one thing I pay attention to is bullet grip.
I anneal my brass after ever 3rd or 4 firing.
i try to maintain about .0015" to .002" grip. Also turn the neck after fire forming enough to have no variation in neck wall thickness.
I also measure from the base to the ojive of all my bullets and put them in seperate lots.
clean the inside outside of necks.
I use super fine moly.If the bullets are not moly coated. I use it as a case inside neck lube for a consistent release on bare bullet,
Dave

My favorite trick is to use my Bersin Tool to adjust runout to less than .002 on anything I want to shoot well.
I do about the same case prep etc. as you..............DJ

Hummm....

This could get to be a very long and detailed list as to what I do for "precision reloading".

But, I'll do it anyway...

1) I deprime the brass
2) I neck-size the brass
3) I tumble the brass
4) I reload the brass

See...I told you it would be long and ddetailed.

I mostly use once fired brass.
I don't mix head stamps.

Case Prep
First I tumble clean the brass using ISSO.
Full resize the cases using Imperial Die Wax.
Deburr the flash holes.
Trim the cases to minimum trim length.
Chamfer the case mouths.
Prime all cases.

Loading

Ball powder:
I adjust my RCBS Uniflow weighing several loads.
Charging cases I weigh the charge randomly for each five to ten cases. (Once for each five cases during load development.)
Seat the bullet adjusting the seating depth as required.
I document the load on a card that fits in the lid of my cartridge box.
1. (50 Gr. V-Max 26.5 Gr. WC-846 OAL = XXX) (10)
I put these loads to the left side of the box in columns.
Repeat the process.

Extruded powders:
I adjust my RCBS Uniflow weighing several loads just short of the desired load.
Now I start throwing my charges into my scale pan put them on the scale and trickle to the load weight.
Seat the bullet adjusting the seating depth as required
I document the load on a card that fits in the lid of my cartridge box.
1. (50 Gr. V-Max 26.5 Gr. WC-846 OAL = XXX) (10)
I put these loads to the left side of the box in columns.
Repeat the process.

I take the loads to the range and chronograph them recording all data.
That data is all related to a specific target and the data is transferred to the target.
The Group is measured recorded on the target with the actual gun information, ambient conditions and filed for future reference.

On the second loading I neck size only.

I only weigh cases for my Viper Drop Port and Bench rest shooting.

I do weigh my new cases into groups of half grain increments, of 200 new cases [Lapua anyway] I can normally come up with 3 seperate boxes of 50 that are the desired .5 grain consistancy and a box of 50 that are practice cases. I think also that one big deterent to better groups is a lot of people not using custom bullets. They are a BIT more expensive, but with what a lot of these guys spend on having a gun put together I feel it is an injustice not to use custom B.R. bullets. I turn necks on all but my hunting guns, although all my reamers are tight necked and a case will not chamber without being turned, This is , in my estimation, a very big contributor to a gun shooting well. My treatment of cases is pretty much like the rest of the guys here, although I do ron a drill bit about a thou. or two bigger than the flashole through the flashole before the burrs are removed from the inside.I do not tumble brass any more at all, I `wipe it down with a patch wet with Butches as it is shot, and if it gets too dirty I will put it in a shellholder designed to spin it, and turn it a second or two with a piece of 4/0 steel wool.

Keep good records and try to understand the data that you collect so you can make an accurate analysis in determining your next step in variable( case,powder, primer, bullet, OAL, etc.) selection.

Get a little excited about what you're going to try next but don't blow up any fire arms unless your name is Clark. roger

My actions in reloading are related to my expectations of the gun/cartridge combination, and how it will be used. With several cartridges I load the aim is accuracy above all, and I will do many of the items listed above. Accuracy needs context of course, and my litmus is range. There is little reason to attempt MOA accuracy with a Winchester 94 in 30-30...minute of deer or hog out to 100 yards or so will do. Sub MOA potential must be realized however if the targets are small and the distance substantial. Adding to the above, at least in my world, concentricity evaluation, and use of powders that will provide as much load density as practical.

My most satisfactory approach to resolving concentricity matters involve the use of Lee Lock Rings for my dies...and finger tightening only. It allows the dies to float and seek a natural center. Neck turning can be a useful tool in resolving inconsistant neck tension, as can annealing.

Mostly you have to decide what your goal is before deciding how much time to invest in your handloads.

Digital nailed it pretty well.....

Here's my philosophy.....this is to get you on paper and from there you can finess as much as you feel practical.

Assuming that your gun is in prime condition for shooting (often a poor assumption) I consider that if accuracy is a foot long then picking the right bullet is ten inches of it. After that, picking the right powder is another inch. All the rest of the variables are combined into that last inch. Such things as distance to lands, powder amount, neck turning, primer pocket unifying etc.....

Your gun may shoot several bullets well and may only shoot one but if you don't find it you're in for frustration. Here's a list of bullets I have found to be good candidates for accuracy in a hunting rifle....and not necessarily in this order...
1 Hornady's interlocks
2 Nosler's Ballistic tips
3 Swift's A-Frame
4 Sierra's game king

Other bullets might be better in your gun but these have been good starting places for me. If your gun don't shoot one of these well you might want to reconsider the bedding in the rifle.....

Pick the powder shown as having the best performance in your loading manual and load a five shot group of several of the bullets that traditionally are accurate.

From that pick the bullet that shot the best and load it with three other powders.

If you're not shooting something around 1.25" groups with this technique then something is wrong and needs to be ferreted out.

Assuming you are then it's a matter of finessing with the other variables. Almost all rifles will give you good groups if you look for the components that "fit" your rifle.

One more thing.....don't assume you need 1/2" groups (like everyone else) to be a good shooter. While you see groups posted here and other places and while everyone seems to get their rifle shooting 1/2" groups you need to consider if tyhat's necessary for your function.

For my hunting guns 1.25" groups are fully acceptable.

In addition to useing the Lee lock rings like DD, a trick I learned a long time ago is to "double seat" the bullet. That is, once the bullet is seated, I lower the ram just enough to turn the loaded round 180 degrees and then "reseat" the bullet. I've found that it really helps when it comes to concentricity. I do this little step on all my rifle loads, don't bother with it for handgun ammo.

Great Tips! Real glad to see this took off.

Do any of you Benchmark your rifle to start with before going to the Hunting Bullets?

When I get a new rifle I like to see what the potential accuracy of it really is and like Bob Beyer mentioned, I first shoot it with Match Grade bullets.

When I do this, I Seat them 0.005"-0.010" Into-the-Lands. That along with my P-FLRed cases seems to get the Bullet started as straight as possible.

Then once I know what the rifle is actually capable of shooting, I go to work on trying to get the actual Hunting Bullet I want to use shooting well. But here I'm Seated Out-of-the-Lands.

HC, I did that years back, but since the advent of the plastic tipped wonder bullets have discontinued the practice. BT's and VMAX's shoot far better than most big game bullets...it's a convenient reference point and I've no rifles that shoot such bullets poorly. Only problem with that is my recently adopted .250-3000. It shoots Partitions a lot better than BT's....I guess the whole thing is sorta contrarian.

I actually hate the Lee lock ring, it makes it so the die has to be readjusted everytime you get ready to seat bullets, so you end up monkeying with the seater plug to get it right, instead of just screwing the die in snug to the lock ring like a typical RCBS die is with the lock ring locked with a set screw

I follow ricciardelli's procedure except I full length resize all cases. I have never weighed a case, or deburred a primer hole. I reload and shoot thousands of rounds per year, mostly Magnums with hunting bullets. I will not keep a rifle unless it shoots a one hole group within a certain time or convinces me it might. The biggest variables in my reloading and shooting is ME, bullets then powder. Good shooting.

Pat,

Let's assume that most of your rifles are between .284 and the .338.

Worst case then all your rifles are .676 guns?

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Keep good records and try to understand the data that you collect so you can make an accurate analysis in determining your next step in variable( case,powder, primer, bullet, OAL, etc.) selection.

Get a little excited about what you're going to try next but don't blow up any fire arms unless your name is Clark. roger

Whatever happened to good ole Clark. Haven't seen a post from hin in awhile.

Mike ----- I am not sure what you are asking but I will list what I shoot. The biggest I have shot is a .50 BMG. The 50's are not mine, they belong to my son-in-law and nephew. My owned magnums are 7mm STW, .300 winny, .338 Win, .338 Lapua, .340 Wby, .358 STA, .416 Rem and Rigby. I shoot many others belonging to my Elk hunting group of 16 hunters and other local hunters. I hope this answers your post, if not please clarify and I will try again. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:
Whatever happened to good ole Clark. Haven't seen a post from hin in awhile.

His ghost is still around !!! roger

Pat,

You stated that if a gun won't shoot one hole or is not capable of one hole then you get rid of it...

That means worst case three shots are all touching...if it were a .338 caliber gun then it is .676 group a .284 would be a .568 group and so on...

That is pretty impressive but not what I think you were implying...

Very interesting posts..

As for case prepping, I have found that the larger the caliber, .300s’ and larger, the less case prep is required. I have been successful in finding sub minute loads with .300 mags, .338’s, .35’s and .375s with no more that just loadin ‘em up.. With the big guys is more about bullet, primer and seating depth. More below..

I did experiment with this some time ago with a 6mm Rem and a .300 H&H. I sorted boxes of 20 rounds by weight, each box having cases of the exact same weight after sizing, trimming and chamfering. And to throw another variable in the mix I added a box of 20 having the extreme weights, the heaviest and lightest found.
What was most amazing was the box with the most extreme weights produced better groups on occasion than the boxes having the same weights. Overall the test showed that there was no advantage in weighing cases with the larger calibers.

Now the little guys, .222 and 22/250 and the like, I have found that case prep is somewhat helpful and I spend more time with these.. With the small cases the more consistent the cases the better because of the relatively small case capacity I would guess.

Now primers…
I have done extensive experimenting here and found that the choice of primer is extremely important. I’ve taken any particular load and assembled 3-5 rounds all the same except having a different primer and shot groups. It is amazing how much variation just primers can create. Just a change in primer can change a ½†group to a 4†group!

Bullet selection is important also but usually loads are developed around a particular bullet and we go from there..

Now for me the most significant aspect to all this, given consistent procedures up to this point, is bullet seating depth..

If I am having trouble with a rifle grouping, and I am sure everything else is Ok, scope bases and rings are tight, bedding is good, barrel channel is clear, loads are assembled well etc.. I will assemble loads and shoot groups with varying seating depths. I start with the bullet just touching and lands and work back in .005†increments. I can say that about 80% of the time I can find a ‘sweet spot’ and the load groups very nicely so my job is done with this load. This procedure is very time consuming obviously, but it is well worth the effort in most cases. Even a load that shoots relatively well can be improved upon by doing this.

However one should realize that a significant change in ambient temperature could and probably will change all this and this brings up another discussion that beginning reloaders should understand.
If a load is developed and found to shoot very well in say 70F degree weather, do not be surprised if the load shoots like crap in 30F degree weather and or the point of impact changes significantly..
And the reverse is true.. If a load is developed in say 40F degree weather and shot in 80 or 90F degree weather, excessive pressure will be seen and or the load won’t shoot well.
By the way this is one of the reasons factory ammo is loaded on the light side by most shooters standards. They don’t know and have no control over what kind of climates their ammo will be shot in. Think of some cowboys takin their 30/06s’ out on a hot 90F degree summer day and shootin up a box of ammo in five minutes at beer bottles..

This all is more or less dependent upon the components used. Some powders and less susceptible to this than others and in this game it is all about variables. One doesn’t know how loads will react to the variables until they are actually shot.

The last thing I do with a given load, if that load will be expected to shoot and perform out to 3-400 yards, is to actually shoot groups AT 300 yds. This is especially required with factory ammo I have discovered. I want to know how well the barrel is stabilizing the bullet. I have seen loads shoot very well at 100 yds, ( Seems just about anything can spit groups at this distance..) only to fall apart out at 300 yds. This doesn’t happen so badly with the better quality bullets available for handloading, but the results can be most surprising just the same.
I believe this is a good practice as it develops confidence in both the rilfe/load and it will develop good shooting skills as well.

Mike ----- Sorry I was so thick headed, I completely missed your point. I never measure a group, if all holes (3 shots for magnums, 5 shots for standard) are touching each other with no paper between them, I call it a one hole group. Obviously the smaller the caliber the smaller the group. It is funny though, I really get a kick out of those .416 one hole groups. I cannot shoot them all the time, in fact some days I can't buy one with a million dollars, then other days I shoot several with different rifles. No caffaine on shooting days either. I also have noticed that a single one hole group is not indicative of what the rifle might do, they have to be repeated consistently to say the rifle is a one holer. I like to repeat them five times to settle on a load. Good shooting.

I have spent hours weighing cases, turning necks, reaming flasholes inside and out, you name it and I have done it. A noted gunwriter says that it is mostly a waste of time and I now tend to believe him - at least for hunting rifles. What does make a difference is a straight neck and overall catridge concentricity just as he said. The longer the range the more critical this becomes. I purchased a custom set of dies made from cases fired in my rifle and a Bersen device. My rounds are all within 0.002 run out. The caliber is 7mm Ultra Mag in a stock Remington Sendero and the accuracy is unbelievable. The brass, of course, is Remington and is amazingly consistent. I also anneal after about 4-5 fireings. That's it. If your rifle likes the load to start with, once you get the ammunition concentric you've done about all you can do.

In an effort to eliminate variables I have been using the Lee Facotry Crimp Die. I actually started useing it on a 375 H&H to be sure that cartridges in the magazine didn't experience a change in bullet depth as a result of recoil. After some experimentation I noticed that the groups became more consistent. So I ordered up a Factory Crimp Die for a 300 Win Mag. This rifle was already an excellent shooter but the FCD improved consistency.

Regarding case prep - when I started loading back in the late 60's I was using a tumbler to clean cases. About 10 years ago I went to a Dillon Vibratory Cleaner. I am very comfortable that it causes no damage to the cases as did the tumbler. My steps are:

1. Clean fired cases in Vib unit.
2. Deprime, full length resize, trim, debur, chamfer, clean and true primer pockets.
3. Clean again.
4. Sort by headstamp.
5. If the loads are for accuracy testing the rifle, I then weigh and group to the 10th gr. If the loads are for general hunting, I weigh and group to 2.0 gr.
6. Again based on accuracy testing or hunting, I weigh and group bullets to the 10th of a gr. or to 1.0 gr.
7. In charging, using a digital scale, I weigh every charge to the 10th.
8. When developing a load I always make up dummies and seat a bullet by the book. But then I check it in the subject rifle to be sure that it is deep enough to chamber with NO binding. I have actually found a COL error in two different loading manuals.
9. Seat at a consistent depth. MIC each one.
10. Set aside the assembled loads until I'm finished with bullet seating. Then change the seating die to the FCD and run them all through. I do this so that there won't be a change caused by removal & reinstalling the seating die or crimp die.

For load development, in addition to the above, I also experiment with charge weights, various bullets and different primers.

In test firing, I cool the barrel with compressed air after every three shots and clean the barrel after every 10 shots.

The goal is consistency by the elimination of variables which ultimately yields accuracy.

And of course, we need to take a break when it is no longer fun.

Whether you are reloading or shooting, Have A Great Day!

Hotcore,

I prepare cases the same as most in this thread, I only have one little "trick". That is while using a Forrester Ultra Seater I back off about .010 from my chosen seating debth. and place the micrometer on a whole number, seat the bullet, measure my oal and adjust the micrometer to the proper debth and finish seating. Every round is the same length, or as close as as I can measure .001

I started doing this with Barnes X, on some of the old ones I would get .005 to .01 variation at the ogive.

Simdow

Starting with Virgin brass.

1)Champfer primer flash hole.
2)uniform depth of primer pocket
3)Lubricate (aerosol) and FL size
4)Trim cases this is done with a File type trim die
and sharp single cut file, I prefer a "guage file"
used for trimming the "raker teeth" on a chainsaw.
5)deburr case mouth inside and out.
6)Wash in solvent to remove case lube
7)Dry cases
8)Tumble (finishes deburring)
9)Wash and dry cases again.
(I don't like contaminating my tumbling media
with case lube)

10) Only then will I bother weighing cases, because I've found virgin cases (Both Norma And Lapua) that varied in length and weight as they came from the original packaging
and DID NOT after initial processing.
Provided a case doesn't vary in weight by more than 0.5 grains I ignore the weight variances.

11) Load cases with a relatively inexpensive bullet
that will touch the rifling and a charge of fast burning propellant.

Example #1:
for 223 I use 55gr Ball projectiles (seated long)and a maximum charge of RL7, IMR4198 or IMR3031
Generally I have "leftover" IMR4198 propellant from loading 444Marlin & 45-70 that is insufficient to load more of the cartridges I bought it for or left over RL7 from cold weather varmint loads...
If I'm using IMR3031 for 223Rem it's bought specifically for fireforming.

Example #2:
30-06 I use any available 180gr bullet and a MAX charge of IMR4895 (45grains), Fireforming cases is the only thing I use IMR4895 for. I still have a fairly large quantity of Herters 180grain Semi-pointed bullets and these are seated
so that chambering the virgin case loaded with them sets the bullet back into the case as the round is chambered.
I want FIRM contact with the rifling so that I KNOW the case head is firmly against the bolt face.

These fireforming rounds are "burned up" in informal practice (I.E. Soda cans, clay targets, rocks etc) and I'm not particularly worried about specific accuracy.

When reloaded these once fired cases will be neck sized and reloaded with my hunting load (in the 30-06 one of three different 165gr bullets and a slightly over book maximum charge of RL22)

for hunting rifles I use "cheap" bullets for practice because training should be harder than the actual intended use.
and because I see no point on wasting $0.50 or $0.75 bullets on paper.

for Varminting I am shifting to only using 50gr Noslers
but I still have a couple of boxes of Sierra 55gr "Blitz"
and I know I have one ox of the nearly identical Hornady SXSP 55gr bullets.

Last note, for loads where I consider that it really matters,
"Warshots" for use against game or for varmint hunting loads, I weigh 100% of my propellant charges to 1/10grain also, but I use my old RCBS10-10 scale....

For fireforming loads I trust my uniflow powder measure.

AllanD

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by simdow:
Hotcore,

I prepare cases the same as most in this thread, I only have one little "trick". That is while using a Forrester Ultra Seater I back off about .010 from my chosen seating debth. and place the micrometer on a whole number, seat the bullet, measure my oal and adjust the micrometer to the proper debth and finish seating. Every round is the same length, or as close as as I can measure .001

I started doing this with Barnes X, on some of the old ones I would get .005 to .01 variation at the ogive.

Simdow

the other day I measured some barnes TSX's and noticed the bullet length varied quite a bit, to be fair I measured base to tip, not to the ogive as I don't have the equipment to do that, I also measured some SMK's and found they varied too, but not as much, I found the bullets with plastic tips seemed to be the most consistant length wise

I weigh my bullets in addition to weighing the cases. I won't get into comparing brands here but some vary more than most people think. The heavier they are the more they vary

quote:

Originally posted by ricciardelli:
1) I deprime the brass
2) I neck-size the brass
3) I tumble the brass
4) I reload the brass
...

Hey Steve, I've seen the results of your Method and it does seem to yield excellent results - for you. That is indeed "simpler" than what all I go through.
---

Hey Craigster, Are you Neck Sizing? I saw your mention of "concentricity" and it seems like a lot of folks that Neck Size have problems with that.
---

Hey DD, I agree with you about the Tipped Bullets being very accurate. I've been in a situation where I couldn't get a MatchKing to do some Benchmarking as quickly as I wanted and went to Nosler Ballistic Tips. They did just fine.

By the way, Hornady does make some excellent Match Grade bullets. Had a recommendation from a Gun Shop Owner and I tried a few boxes which shot great.
---

quote:

Originally posted by RDub:
... I have found that the larger the caliber, .300s’ and larger, the less case prep is required. ...

Hey RDub, That is an interesting observation. As I sit here thinking about it, I believe most of my data would support that too. My larger caliber Lever Actions excluded, cause they can be a bit tricky, but they are for close-up use where I don't go to the extremes I do with the longer distance rifles anyhow.

Anyone else notice the above?
---

Hey JBD, I noticed you mentioned "neck concentricity", are you Neck Sizing? Have you ever tried Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR)?
---

Hey SD Shooter, Do you "Crimp" into a Cannelure or Crimp into the bullet even if it doesn't have a Cannelure? Also wondering if you tried using the Roll Crimp feature of your old Dies before you purchased the "Lee FCD"?
---

Hey Simdow, I read your post and was wondering, are you using OAL as your Final Check, or the distance to the Ogive from the Case Head?
---

Hey Allan DeGroot, I also like to Fire Form my cases using elcheapo bullets.

You mentioned "Neck Sizing", but you didn't mention "concentricity". It seems like a majority of the Neck Sizing folks put a lot of effort into getting the Run-Out whipped. Do you measure for it?
---

quote:

Originally posted by cummins cowboy:
...the other day I measured some barnes TSX's and noticed the bullet length varied quite a bit, to be fair I measured base to tip, not to the ogive as I don't have the equipment to do that, ...

Hey CC, Go to your Tool Box and get the largest "Socket" which will not slip past the Ogive. Slide it over the Bullet Tip and measure from the top of the Socket to the Bullet Base. It will work just like the Sinclair Bullet Comparitor does.

When Bullets enter the Final Forming operation any slight variance remaining in the Jacket is transformed into an Overall Bullet Length difference. But, the Ogive to Base distance is generally very consistant.
---

Hey Dennis, Good observation on the weights. Have you run any Tests to see how much the varying weight affects group size?

at one time ,what is called a fitted case [I believe] was popular among BR shooters and I have run into yhis a few times by accident. It is a case that is turned so close to the chambers neck that sizing of any kind is unnecessary, the case springs back to the size it was when it was loaded. I realize that this is nothing that any of you gentlemen would be interested in but a point of interest nontheless.

kinda like steve - i put the primer in one end, the powder in the middle and the bullet in the opposite end

Hotcore,

Sorry I didnot explain that.

I measure all my stuff to the ogive with a Stoney Point Comparator. So actually they are not the same length, but they are the same distance from the lands which is what matters in my way of thinking.

Simdow

I have another method for determining seating depth for a particular bullet...

I partially seat the bullet in a neck sized case with a dab of Loctite RC-680 inside the neck of the case and on the heel of the bullet, I then "finish" seat it using the action of the rifle (lightly oiled chamber)

I then have a permanantly glued together sample cartridge
for "firm engagement" seating depth, but to guarantee the bullet doesn't move I drip some cerrobend (Similar to chamber cast alloy) into the back of the cartridge through the primer pocket which I drill out.... this prevents the bullet and shoulder from "crushing back" from repeated use.
BTW, I do not completely fill the case with the cerro alloy
I only fill it to within a 1/4" or so of the case head web
I then fill it the rest of the way with epoxy

the only particular comparator that really matters is a neck sized case with the particular bullet and specific chamber it is intended to be used in.

I then use that to set the seating die and adjust for the ammount of bullet jump I want.

I make sample cartridges for each rifle bullet combination
and I make "firm engagement", "light (no tension) contact"
and finally when I've developed an accurate load
I make a "production setting" sample.

when a barrel gets removed and discarded so do those
handmade guages, they represent only about 45min of effort, but saves me time further down the line... I also keep specific die sets for each rifle.

the various comparators and "precision micrometers" are nice for other people's rifles when I'm helping them get set up, but a solid, permanant setting guage is not sensitive to user manipulation or mis-use.

AllanD

Hot Cor,

Thanks for your follow up question.

If there is a cannelure, I crimp at that point. If there is no cannelure, the Lee Factory Crimp Die works great. Yes, in the past I used the rolled crimp die that was part of the seating die. What I learned is that there is a very slight margin between getting a proper and adequate crimp and going too far and having a buckled shoulder. The FCD takes care of two issues:

1. On heavy recoiling rifles, the FCD puts an adeqiate crimp that keeps the bullets that are in the cartridges in the magazine from moving.

2. And this is just as important on all calibers, the FCD provides a uniform tension during release. If you recall in my earlier post, I mentioned that I assemble the cartridges and set them aside, and then I crimp all of the same lot with the FCD "at the same time" so that I don't change anything by changing back and forth between the seater die and the crimp die.

For the single shot rifle which is used in competitive activities, I doubt that the crimp is a big deal. In fact, one of the other posts indicates putting a lubricant on the inside of the neck to reduce neck tension when the bullet departs. But since my efforts are always predicated on accuracy in hunting, I do believe that all hunting cartridges should have some degree of crimp, and thus the resulting effect and desire for uniform neck tension.

Just another effort to remove a variable.

I personally feel that concentricty is very very important when we strive for accuracy. I've proved that little theory w/ several trips to the range w/ a selection of rounds that are straight vs rounds that were alittle off center yet loaded the exact same way, the crooked rounds almost always shoot bigger groups.

A good way to get straight rounds (assuming good dies) is to seat 1/3, turn case, seat 1/3, turn case, and seat the rest of the way.

Just this past week I loaded a small batch of loads w/ brass that only had around a .001 fluctuation in case neck concentricity on my RCBS Case Master but, I just seated the bullets in one full stroke to compare to the turning 1/3s method and the results were poor as I expected, much mor run-out than doing the 1/3s procedure.

I guess another good tip for newbies would be to try different primers once you've found a good grouping combo. Sometimes a switch from Win to Federal Primers etc can result in a much tighter group.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:Hey Allan DeGroot, I also like to Fire Form my cases using elcheapo bullets.

You mentioned "Neck Sizing", but you didn't mention "concentricity". It seems like a majority of the Neck Sizing folks put a lot of effort into getting the Run-Out whipped. Do you measure for it?

I checked for it initially to determine that the die/shellholder/press combination wasn't creating any concentricity issues, but after you've checked a set of known tooling together
a certain number of times and don't see any differences or changes you stop wasting time
rechecking the same things over and over again.

For ultimate accuracy in my (mostly)factory rifles a bullet that's in contact with the rifling will be concentric providing that the throat and chamber are.... and mine are.

Besides, if I can make smiley faces out of 1" target pasters @100yds with my 223rem varmint gun, how much need is there to do anything "better"?

I am neither benchrest shooting nor long range target shooter and I think I've already had my once-in-a-lifetime 400+yard shot at a whitetail and don't expect another long range shot like that enough to waste much time preparing for it...


AllanD