Went to the range today to test .225-grain Sierra Game Kings in both my .358 Winchester and my .35 Whelen. It was 68 degrees with high humidity.

First up was the .358 with a 19" barrel. I had loaded the Game kings in front of 51 grains of W748, and 47 grains of Tac. The first three shots were with the 748: 2397 fps, 2388 fps and 2387 fps. All three shots hit within about a 1.25" group. Then the Tac: 2333 fps, 2327 fps, and 2333 fps. They were fired at the same target as the first group, and the result was one six-shot ragged hole. I have shot Up to 48 grains of Tac with the Speer 220-grain Hot Cors for a velocity of right at 2400 fps, however with 48 grains, there was a "shine" on the case rim that made me a little nervous. No shine today.

Then I picked up the Whelen -- a Model 70 with a 24" barrel. I've been hunting with it the last few years with 59 grains of Re 15 behind both 225-grain Partitions and Ballistic Tips (now discontinued), however I have not been satisfied with the load because I only get a max of about 2550 fps with both bullets (I know the Whelen is capable of more velocity). Today, working up in 1/2-grain increments, I stopped at 60.5-grains of Re. 15., with my brass showing no pressure signs and no sticky bolt. At 60.5 grains, I got 2635 fps, 2642 fps, and 2638 fps., and a 1" group. Not bad, but I thought it would be a little higher on the velocity side (my "target" was 2700 fps). I read about a lot of folks getting 2750 or more from 225-grainers, but I'm not willing to push it any higher. I'm already over max on most manuals, and right at max on a couple more.

Then I went back to the now-cooled .358 and shot a three-shot group with 220-grain Hot Cors and 51-grains of W748. As usual with this bullet, the group was under and inch, and velocity was almost identical to the Sierras, 2390, 2386, and 2395. I would like to average 2400 fps with this gun, and I can at 52 grains of 748, but I have gotten a little bit of a sticky bolt with that load at a couple of sessions, and feel more comfortable by backing off a grain.

With both rifles, I feel like I'm pretty close to posting go-to my hunting loads in my master book. One or two more range sessions and I think I'll be there!

I'm guessing your Whelen has a "slow" barrel. Mine has a 22" barrel and with 250 Hornadays and 60.0 RL-15 I'm just a hair under 2700 fps.

I was hoping someone would say that maybe I have a slow Chrograph rather than a "slow barrel."

GAHunter, your results with the Sierra Bullet in the Whelen are similar to mine, regarding velocity. I am using IMR 4895, (forget the amount), and at 100 yds, it will cut 3 shot clover leafs... velocity at 2650 fps.

The deer I shot this year did not miss the 50 fps, especially when you have 225 grs moving at Mach II!...

That 35 Whelen is more than capable of taking any game animal on this continent, without the excessive recoil of heavier magnums.

Keep having fun with it!!

I am not a bit concerned about how hard my bullet hits. I know 225 grains moving at anything over 2300 fps is pretty devastating. I'm just trying to get to a consistent velocity as high as I can achieve for the gains in trajectory.

A couple of years ago I was hunting with the Whelen zeroed at 100, and greatly misjudged the range on a big nine pointer that was with some does on a power line in Alabama. I figured the distance was a little over 200 yards, aimed center-mass, and fired. To my surprise, I kicked up dirt between the deer's legs. The deer reacted confused, and only ran to the edge of the power line. Knowing my range estimation was way off, I put the cross hairs about four inches over the animal's back, and dropped him with a shot high in the shoulder. When I paced it off, my killing shot was 340 long-stride paces. My first shot was at about 330.

I'm not saying an extra 150 fps would have caused me to hit him with the first shot. But couple that extra speed with "western" zero (225 yards), and that first shot would only have been about 8" low.

Of course, had I had my rangefinder the whole thing would have been moot -- as long as I remembered my ballistic tables, that is!

You should be concerned about "how hard the bullet hits" as it goes hand in hand with velocity...velocity goes hand in hand with bullet shape and barrel length...and all that goes hand in hand with trajectory...the higher the velo, the higher the BC, the less drop and the more striking energy...energy increases with the square of the velo.

Add 100 fs and you "might" decrease the trajectory depending on the BC of the bullet, but you WILL INCREASE the energy by some factor depending on the bullet weight, caliber and so forth.

The only way to know for certain is to consult a trajectory software program or,(in the olden days ) consult a ballistics drop book. I have a very nice one about 2" thick that I can dig out data quicker than any of my many software programs.

THEN... actually shoot that bullet/powder combo at 100 and 300(or more) yds and measure the actual drop and calculate the actual BC of the bullet.

By the way...the Whelen suffers the same fate as many older "wildcat" rounds, it has a SAAMI pressure well below the capabilities of the case and a modern metal receiver/barrel. It's SAAMI rated at ~58KPSI and a modern metal can handle MUCH more than that(compare to a Mag cartridge).

My slightly smaller bullet OD 338-06 has seen well, WELL over 2800fs, but below 62KSPI with a Hornady 225 gr SP bullet, but it's most accurate at ~2750 so that's where I run it.

QL has several 220-225 gr bullet/powder combo's that reach well over 2800 fs at below 62KPSI...

I'M NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE LOAD ANY CARTRIDGE OVER ANY SAAMI SPEC PRESSURE...this information is just for educational purposes only.

JUST SAYING...

quote:

Originally posted by Sagebrush Burns:
I'm guessing your Whelen has a "slow" barrel. Mine has a 22" barrel and with 250 Hornadays and 60.0 RL-15 I'm just a hair under 2700 fps.

A note from Jesse at JES has this same load for my 35 Gibbs. Waiting on dies and excited to start dialing it in for bear season.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
I was hoping someone would say that maybe I have a slow Chrograph rather than a "slow barrel."

If you really are unsure about the chrono, test on some other loads that you already know - that'll give you an answer.

Personally, if I were getting the accuracy I desired, I could give a hoot about an extra 50-100 fps. The game animals will never know they shouldn't have died because the bullet was going 75 fps slower than what some manual says.

Like I said in the OP, I'm not concerned about the killing power of either round. Heck, I hunt a lot with a .35 Rem., shooting a 200 grain bullet at 1970 fps. The effects of this round on game (deer) are impressive, as long as I do my part. Seldom have I not had complete pass-through, though I have had to blood-trail on occasion (as I have with all my calibers). I can only imagine a 220-grain, or 225-grain bullet moving 400 to 700 fps faster will only speed up the process.

I am simply trying to achieve a standard load with the flattest trajectory possible for each rifle before I begin testing at longer ranges (300 yards for the .358, 400 for the Whelen).