I'm not doing much serious BR shooting these days, but I like to use BR techniques in my reloading of non-BR cartridges. I'm wondering whether any of you guys bother with weight-sorting your cases prior to loading them. The BR guys certainly do (and they go much further and weight-sort bullets and primers too), but do you think there's a discernible accuracy advantage with the usual varmint and big-game cartridges?

And if some of you do this, how much precision is necessary in your scale to do this right?

Yes we do.

We get our brass in bulk.

We size and trim then sort by weight.

Generally keeping each 100 lot within one grain.

Any serious shooting with a suitable rifle each group is shot with brass of the same weight.

Yes, I do sort smaller caliber brass…up to and including .375 H H. Larger calibers I don’t weight sort. I think there is a noticeable accuracy difference in calibers like .243, .270, .300 WM.

I use to when I was fanatical about accuracy but I'm good with an inch and a half these days. But when I was doing it I noticed a difference. I just got ocd about keeping once fired from twice fired and everything else that goes along with detailed accuracy.

I watch selling sites for batches of good quality, low shot count, used brass. I generally buy only Norma. Since I know nothing about the brass whatever size batch I buy, 20, 50, 100 cases, I check each case for condition before sorting into different batches by weight. I separate by 2 gns and no more than 4 gns depending on the weight spread of the bulk quantity. I think, and have been told by wiser men than I, that it contributes to better accuracy although I have not done my own testing to see, one way or the other.

I am doing a text on different kind of bullets. Flat point v hollow point.

Each group of 5 have the same weight cases and bullets.

Exactly the same.

Only way to do a meaningful test.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am doing a text on different kind of bullets. Flat point v hollow point.

Each group of 5 have the same weight cases and bullets.

Exactly the same.

Only way to do a meaningful test.

Saeed, what scale do you use for the weight-sorting? I'm wondering how much precision is required.

An RCBS electronic powder scale.

Complete waste of time for big game cartridges and rifles. The time you spend gaining that .25 MOA will be better spent practicing shooting under field conditions. There are no bench rests in the hunting areas.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Complete waste of time for big game cartridges and rifles. The time you spend gaining that .25 MOA will be better spent practicing shooting under field conditions. There are no bench rests in the hunting areas.

True Mr dpcd, but if someone is so inclined to do all he can for accuracy, has the time and wants the best, it sure doesn't hurt a thing. I especially like your thoughts on practicing!

It's kind of like a "slight" neck turn of brass for a SAAMI chambered rifle. It probably doesn't help THAT much but the bullet will be more concentric in the loaded round if the case is about 3/4 or the way "scuffed". True, none of this will overcome a lack of field practice.

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Complete waste of time for big game cartridges and rifles. The time you spend gaining that .25 MOA will be better spent practicing shooting under field conditions. There are no bench rests in the hunting areas.

While this is of course true, any doofus can walk into Wally World, pick up a box of shells, and go hunting. Reloading, for whatever rifle you do it for, ain’t about hunting accuracy, it’s about rifle accuracy. Some folks just want to see what their rifle is capable of. If you don’t care, why would you choose to reload?

Because all the cartridges I shoot, you can't buy. I don't use anything common. And all those doofus's who buy factory ammo, and shoot plastic factory rifles, kill game. I see them all the time.
Please don't tell me to weigh 450 Nitro brass. Or that an extra .25 MOA will matter in the field. I didn't start all this yesterday.
I also see guys at the range strive to get that extra tight group, while ignoring the fact that he did not practice under field conditions, and is largely untrained and undisciplined in hunting type shooting. He is worse off than he thinks. So don't fall into that trap of false accuracy security, and in reality, being no better off in the field.
I didn't say not to do it; I said, understand exactly what you are really accomplishing.

It all comes down to H2o case capacity for me,weight & length need to be consistent for consistent performance,it matters a lot in some cartridges whereas in the bigger cases it does not mean much,in a 470 NE where I am using filler anyways? I am not concerned,in smaller cases where 5 gr difference in weight can have a significant impact on case capacity? I weigh em.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Complete waste of time for big game cartridges and rifles. The time you spend gaining that .25 MOA will be better spent practicing shooting under field conditions. There are no bench rests in the hunting areas.

Absolutely correct.

Under hunting conditions, the weakest link is the man pulling the trigger.

When we do any test, we try to eliminate all variables.

That is the only way, to me at least, is to get a meaningful results.

And as in all our tests, we are not trying to prove a point.

We are curious, and would like to see for ourselves what the results are.

In today's world, there are so many people on Youtube who post utterly stupid and ridiculous results.

Any shooter with any common sense can sss a mile away that they are lying.

At the end of the day, it is up to you personally, and what satisfies.

quote:

Under hunting conditions, the weakest link is the man pulling the trigger.

100% true, and unfortunately, I have proven that on occasion.

According to my friend Dwight Scott, who is a well known gunsmith a bench rest shooter, and a buffalo hunter, it all depends on when you flinch.

That governs whether you hit your animal or not.

He is still trying to flinch "like Saeed does"

I suppose you can flinch on or flinch off!!

I sort my brass as to make, and keep track of the number of firings and I never weigh it, all my bolt action scoped guns shoot an inch. I just hunt, no competition shooting..Bench shooters don't use the trigger, they sorta hold the trigger with the middle finger and drop the bolt with the trigger finger..From what Ive seen it doesn't work well on live game. Bottom line its your gun and your two bits, do what you enjoy, thats what its all about..

Like I said, it all depends on what a guy wants.

If you're just flopping down on the ground to whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards, there's no need to neck turn or weight-sort brass.

I LIKE to do all the work on reloading brass prep, eliminate as much human error on the bench to get the best accuracy, practice in field positions and THEN flop down on the ground and whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards with greater confidence.

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
Like I said, it all depends on what a guy wants.

If you're just flopping down on the ground to whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards, there's no need to neck turn or weight-sort brass.

I LIKE to do all the work on reloading brass prep, eliminate as much human error on the bench to get the best accuracy, practice in field positions and THEN flop down on the ground and whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards with greater confidence.

Zeke

You know, Zeke, a lot of guys say that. They realize at some level that the painstaking steps they take with their reloading probably make no difference to their success in the game fields, but they just feel better about the likelihood of success anyway. I think I am in that camp too. The placebo effect is very real!!

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:
I'm not doing much serious BR shooting these days, but I like to use BR techniques in my reloading of non-BR cartridges. I'm wondering whether any of you guys bother with weight-sorting your cases prior to loading them. The BR guys certainly do (and they go much further and weight-sort bullets and primers too), but do you think there's a discernible accuracy advantage with the usual varmint and big-game cartridges?

And if some of you do this, how much precision is necessary in your scale to do this right?

That's a part of the process if you want to hit what you're aiming at. When I first started weighing my brass I was amazed at the wide range of weights I came up with even with same brands.

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
Like I said, it all depends on what a guy wants.

If you're just flopping down on the ground to whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards, there's no need to neck turn or weight-sort brass.

I LIKE to do all the work on reloading brass prep, eliminate as much human error on the bench to get the best accuracy, practice in field positions and THEN flop down on the ground and whack a nice bull elk at 300-400 yards with greater confidence.

Zeke

You know, Zeke, a lot of guys say that. They realize at some level that the painstaking steps they take with their reloading probably make no difference to their success in the game fields, but they just feel better about the likelihood of success anyway. I think I am in that camp too. The placebo effect is very real!!

I've always said, "Does it help? I don't know but it makes me feel better so it must be working". LOL

Yessir, the placebo effect is VERY real.

Zeke

The kill zone on an elk is the size of a 5 gal bucket or larger, a deer is 10 inches, I don't need no damn pacebos!!


Besides I developed the controled flinch,therefore I have learned to flinch on as opposed to flinch off, well most of the time.

yes i do sort by weight, sometimes. Retired guys have the time.

My son took a job in Montana and i bought him a 30-06 for hunting. Worked up a consistent load using 150 gr Sierra ProHunters. The brass i got from acquaintance who has a lot of shooting stuff. He gave me more than 100 cases, mostly once fired. Mixed makes and mixed headstamps in some brands.
Cleaned the cases [ vinegar + salt works ok ], sized them, and TTL.
Used a Hornady digital to weigh the cases. Rounded each weight to the nearest whole number. Made a 'histogram' type arrangement on the table.....brass of the same weight in the same line.

Most of the brass weighed between 180 gr and 193 gr. The one Norma case weighed 204 gr. One of the cases weighed about 167 gr and went into the trash.

I divided the weighed brass into 4 groups....unequal count groups... for some consistency. Using a digital scale makes the process quite rapid. several cases per minute.

I realize that this might not make much of a difference. but sometimes i weigh cases because i can. :-) A minor attempt to minimize some variables in the process.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I suppose you can flinch on or flinch off!!

I sort my brass as to make, and keep track of the number of firings and I never weigh it, all my bolt action scoped guns shoot an inch. I just hunt, no competition shooting..Bench shooters don't use the trigger, they sorta hold the trigger with the middle finger and drop the bolt with the trigger finger..From what Ive seen it doesn't work well on live game. Bottom line its your gun and your two bits, do what you enjoy, thats what its all about..

so very true

I have a whole bunch of 308 brass, some vary by quite a bit in weight.

All the same make.

They have been prepped and cut to length.

I will see if I can spare some time and make a selection of various weights.

I will shoot them against ones of the same weight.

And as I am assuming we are talking about general hunting shooting, I will use a hunting rifle.

Any suggestions of how much the weight should vary for each 5?

Your input is appreciated.

I do and I'm a hunter who shoots competitively just to keep in practice for hunting.

I figure that if I'm good for 2 MOA in the field and my ammo is also good for 2 MOA than I'm limited by a 4 MOA combined accuracy.

If however, I get anal about my reloading and get my ammo accuracy down to 0.5 MOA than my range is now limited to 2.5 MOA combined accuracy.

Saeed, I'm interested in what your findings will be.
I have weighed 308 brass and on a (-0+) scale the brass I weighed from 165 to 171 grains.
I went one more step trying to decide if it made any difference.
I put a spent primer in upside down re weighed the cases and filled the cases with a ball powder all the way to the top of the neck.. Winchester brass 100pcs.. neck sized
It made very little difference in the volume when I weighed the case and if the case weighed 166grs and a full case of powder was the same for a case that weighed a 171 grs. I used a gen 5 Lyman scale to drop charge the cases. all charges were exact.
I think the weight difference was in the base of the brass.

Just for what it's worth.

A few years ago when 5.56/.223 brass was hard to come by, I happened on a site that sold once-fired LC brass. It came in a bag with lots of grass and dirt and some were unusable. I cleaned up and FL sized those I thought would work.

On a lark, I loaded some with 24 grs LT-32 and 40 grain VMax bullets. Imagine my surprise last week when I was able to put 5 rounds into <0.6MOA with my LRPV.

I'm not sure there is a moral to this tale, but I sure was surprised at how well even crappy brass could shoot.

I'll need to repeat this little experiment before I pitch my Lapua brass but . . .

I got a bag of 50 RWS brass, once fired from factory Match ammo.

They have been prepped, flash hole uniformed, primer pocket cut, and cut to trim to length.

They varied by 10 grains!!

Which is great for our test.

I also have just finished a batch of our own 158 Walterhog bullets in .308 caliber.

Plan is to use RWS 5333 large rifle primers, a Sako 85 S with a Leupold 4.5-14X scope.

I will try shooting mixed brass, and brass that weight very close together.

I will shoot 5 shoot 5 shots groups at 100 yards.

Stay tuned.

I have 200 cases for the 6mm-284, all from the same manufacturing lot. So far, so good.
Weighing cases might get groups down from half-inch, haven't done it.

Sako A85 S with a 4.5-14X Leupold scope. Walterthog 158 HP bullets, 41.0 grains of H4895, RWS 5333 primers in RWS once fired brass from match factory ammo.

Details on the targets.

I am very surprised how accurate everything is!!

I will continue testing with other bullets, as my stock of this one has been taken away.

All the cases have been full length resized, trimmed again and the primer pockets have been uniformed again.

Strange as each time we do this some brass is taken off, just as the increase in length.

I will make some bullets of different weights, and use another powder, and repeat the test.

I have run some 145 grain Walterhogs, Tungsten coated them.

As you might guess, each case's weight has changed, due to trimming and primer pocket uniforming.

I am loading all with Varget, 47.0 grains, and using the same RWS 5333 primers.

I will post my results.

This is fun.

First, it is absolutely necessary that all brass be trimmed to a uniform length if weighing is going to mean anything.

It is true that we instinctively believe that a heavier case decreases the "powder space" (actually, takes room out of the chamber, thus decreasing the size of the pressure vessel.) However, this is neither always the case nor is it as significant as one might believe.

Copper (brass) is many times denser than powder, so a 1% increase in brass weight only (theoretically) decreases powder space by a very much smaller percentage.

Also, if the weight difference is in some place outside of the pressure vessel (a thicker rim or heavier belt), then there is zero impact on "powder space". Combine these factors and you'll find that it takes a very substantial weight difference to make any detectable difference in powder space.

What you are concerned with is volume, not mass. It would be more meaningful to measure the case capacity by filling the case with water (quite messy and inconvenient) and noting the difference than in the apples to oranges comparison of weights. Of course, case capacity is meaningless unless the cases are fired in the same chamber and measured before any type of resizing. An unfired or full length sized case will always have less capacity than a fired case.

As a routine procedure, we size, trim, uniform the flash hole and primer pocket.

Then we sort by weight.

Each case might increase in length, might actually get shorter too.

Brass flowing into the primer pocket Aldi varies with each case after each firing.

Cases might increase in length on side, but not the other.

This just shows that the brass moves in different directions on each case.

What we do when sort the brass by weight, is try to eliminate one variable.

quote:

Then we sort by weight.

I load for my son and grandsons, ever box of 20 rounds have two different loads of 10, nothing unusual about sending them 12 boxes, that would be 120 rounds. When I get these cases back, they are never in the box they were shipped. To get the cases back to where they started all I have to is match the cases with their headstamp.

F. Guffey

I think that results would only show up at longer ranges.

With a 165 grain Barnes MRX in a 308 Win a 100FPS difference is only a 3.5 MOA difference at 1,000 yards.

I look at brass sorting as only part of a total consistency reloading procedure.

With the Barnes bullets, I also sort by weight because 20+ years ago the bullets used to vary a lot. I remember them telling me that they held their bullets to within 1% weight tolerance so for a 150 grain bullet, you could get bullets that weighted anywhere from 148.5 to 151.5 grains.

They've gotten a lot better since then.

Yes, weight sort to 3/10 grs in 243win after full bench rest prep.

Nope.
I have tried it though and know that it does make a difference. I don't compete so I do not need the very last bit of accuracy to do what I do.