Hope everyone had a wonderful New Year, but here is my first question for 2005.

I do not have the rifle yet, but am ready to look at loads for my upcoming spring bear hunt in Canada.

I bought new brass and decided on Nosler Accubonds 225 grain bullets. I do have a powder dilemma:

I read in this forum somewhere that the most accurate round with these bullets was 71 grains of IMR 4350. I presume that this load was for a rifle with a 24 inch or longer barrel. (again, a presumption). I am building a .338 rifle with a 22 inch barrel.

Please tell me if my reasoning is sound?

4350 is a fairly slow burning powder, 71 grains puts it at about 93% capacity of the case.

I have a shorter barrel, so, presumably, I should use a faster burning powder. In all my cartridges, from 22-250 to 30-06, I currently use IMR 4064, with very good results. I would therefore like to use 4064 in the .338 as well.

In the little booklet I bought, IMR does not have any reloading data for a 225 grain bullet. Sierra, however, was the only one with a load listing for 4064, which was 56 grains or about 76% capacity.

Hubby told me that I should pick a powder that allows for an at least 85% capacity of the case, or lose accuracy. I feel, as this is a faster burning power, 76-80% is probably okay, as it works for the 30-06, and I will need a faster burning powder due to the shorter barrel.

Is there anyone who has experimented with the 4064 powder in a 22 inch barrel? Is there a formula which one could use to figure out how much barrel length is necessary to burn all the powder?

If push comes to shove, I will buy IMR 4350, but it is a convenience to use only one powder.

Marianne

Marianne- I don't know of a formula, but have you looked at RL19. Now I don't know were it falls as far as burn rates go between the powders you selected, but it is incredibly accurate in my .338 Win. Mag. My load is a bit different as I shoot 250gr Grand Slams and they have yet to let me down. Right around .4 at 100yds.- Hope it helps-Mike

I use IMR 4350 in my .338 . Check out the new Shooting Times on the newstand. Layne Simpson has a big article in there about myths. He claims that it's an urban myth that faster powders work better in shorter barrels. I advise you try the 4350 in your gun and see what you get. I use 72 gr in mine behind a Nosler 210 Partition.

Using "fast" powders in a short barrel is an old handloading myth... just ain't so. I use H4350 in the 338 WM (yes, all mine have 22" bbl's). With 225's I generally get 2,850 fps.

Even in shorter barrels you will acheive the best results when you use the powder that is optimized for the cartridge and not for the barrel length. IMR-4350 is a super powder for 338 Win Mags and IMHO the first powder that you should try in this round. RL-22 is probably the second powder to try and then H-4350 and RL-19. IMR-4064 probably will only work well with the lighter bullets, personaly I wouldn't even bother trying it with 225 Accubonds. Also Remember that 71.0grs of IMR-4350 is a Max Load and I shoot it in a rifle with a long throat and the bullets seated pretty far out. In your custom rifle if it has a shorter throat and a tighter chamber that load might be too warm for your rifle - It is in one of my custom 338's........DJ

Marianne,

I have used both IMR 4064 and RL 15 in the 338 Mag with the 225 grain Hornady SP bullets.
The data you have there is just fine, or you can go lower.

I have also used IMR 3031 in the 338 Mag.,

Lyman's 47 th manual recommends starting at 57 grains with an MV of 2475 or so. and max load at 63 grains for an MV of 2717 fps.

I also have some Downloaded info, but I am sure you can handle the regular sized loads.
Good luck on the bear hunting.

Cheers and Happy New Year.
seafire

Accessorize! Accesorize! How many times must I repeat it? You wouldn't wear pink heels with blaze orange would you? No self respecting belted mag case would be caught dead in 4064! Tsk! Tsk! No, what's been showing on this year's runways in Fairbanks and on the Limpopo are medium slow burners for the evergreen 338. IMR 4350 and 4831 are true classics and go with the 338 like pearls and black velvet.

Some daring souls have flirted with RL-19 and 22 sucessfully though. A bit avant garde perhaps in some eyes but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I like the clean lines of H-4831SC because it meters so well and can go from day to evening with a minimum of fuss. OK, one should really go with some dangly magnum primers for evening occasions but standard primers usually suffice without getting the fashion police in a tizzy.

Yep, the grand ol 338. Clothes horse of the magnum world.

Tim

The thing to remember above all things when you're working up a new load for any given rifle is that each rifle is a law unto itself.

IMR 4350 might provide the tightest groups and highest velocities in my .338 Win. Mag. rifle, for example, but it might turn out an absolutely abysmal performance in yours.

It always annoys me when anyone makes a blanket statement that a certain powder is THE BEST powder across the board for a given cartridge. I don't doubt that it might be the best powder in that individual's rifle, but that surely doesn't make it the single best propellant in everyone else's.

I could go on, but for starters, I would absolutely get a copy of Nosler's latest reloading manual, as well as Swift's. Both of these have some of the very best reloading data on the .338 Win. Mag. that's available, and at least as far as Nosler's material is concerned, it's very closely matched the results I've see with a number of rifles over the years in .338 Win.

I would start with not one, but several propellants (and primers), even if the first one you work with seems to shoot well. The next powder you try might just shoot even better and add 100 fps. with greater consistency.

You also need access to a chronograph. Without one, exacting load development simply isn't possible..............

AD

quote:

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It always annoys me when anyone makes a blanket statement that a certain powder is THE BEST powder across the board for a given cartridge. I don't doubt that it might be the best powder in that individual's rifle, but that surely doesn't make it the single best propellant in everyone else's.

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IMR-4350 might not be the single best propellant for the 338 Win Mag but after reloading for 8 different 338 Win Mags I'm convinced that it is at least the best place to START. I've also mentions some other good canidates. Maybe you are reading a little bit much into some of my comments AD..........

I really didn't have your comments in mind at all when I made that post, rather someone else's when this topic has come up before.

I agree with you that IMR 4350 is a most excellent powder to start with in any .338 Win. Mag. Generally, if IMR 4350 performs in a given .338 Win., you don't need to look a whole lot further as a general rule.

AD

Marianne,
I shoot .338 in both a #1 and a custom Mauser with a 22" bbl. Both seem to shoot better with 210 Nosler partitions, seated in front of 72 grains of IMR 4350. I have used both CCI and wichester primers without noticing any difference.

George

IMR 4064 would be adequate in your .338wm but H4350, IMR4350, RL19 & IMR 4831 will give you more vel. even in the shorter bbl. & give you 90%+ load den.

IMR 4831@68-69g & anyones250g slug =2650fps in my 22" bbl I dont shoot 225g slugs! you will love your 338

There's not one poster on this entire thread that claimed they used the "best" powder for the 338 WM...

Mind what your husband tells you about loading to at least 85% density. It's also noteworthy that SLOWER powders are better in shorter barrels, the reverse of what many think.

All my barrels have been 23". Without fail in over a dozen rifles I've had the best success with RL22 behind both 225 and 250 Nosler Partitions. In only two rifles has another propellant yielded the best combination of accuracy and velocity with those bullet weights and that was with Vihtavouri N160 (74g) and H4831 (79g). Still, RL22 was right there. If I were going to develop a load for one right now the first powder I would reach for would be RL22. With 225 Noslers somewhere between 74 and 78g would produce the best combo of velocity and accuracy. I've had good luck with H4350 and RL19 but at much slower accurate loads. Stick with the slower burning powders for the most uniform combustion and lowest standard deviation.

My experience with this fabulous cartridge began exactly 37 yrs. ago and I have owned and loaded for 12 rifles so chambered in the intervening years. I have used IMR-4350 for many years, H-4831, RE-19 and RE-22; I have had the BEST results, overall, with RE-22, followed by IMR-4350, I only shoot 250 gr. bullets although I have tried almost all the others, 200, 210, 225, 250 and 300, but, not 275s.

I find that 76-77 grs. of RE-22 absolutely rocks in my five current .338s and suggest trying this with the 250 NP, start with 71 grs. I prefer Winchester brass and CCI 250 primers and consider this combo in a good CRF rifle to be as good as it gets for hunting here in B.C., although I prefer an even larger rifle for protection work due to our increasing Grizzly population and their increased aggression levels.

Good luck with your new rifle!

For those with experience loading the .338 do you crimp?

Jeff

Jeff, I've never found it necessary to crimp.

AD

Never had to crimp. I seat bullets with a .002" grip and never had one set back in the magazine after firing.

Jeff: I only crimp above 375 H&H ( although I'm not sure it's nessesary, lots of folks don't even crimp 416s) tubular fed rifles and handguns. Having said that, my particular favorite load for the 338, 71.1gr of RL-19 is crimped. Why? because the Lee dies came with it and I did run a battery of tests using the above laod and found a slight increase in consistency (read: accuracy) with crimped rounds. To contrast, I DO NOT crimp my 340 Weatherby, mainly because I use Nosler Partitions which as you are aware do not have a cannelure. jorge

Marianne:
I wouldn't disagree with any of the previous comments regarding powders however, I couldn't get consistant accuracy with either of the 4350 powders in my .338 with 225 gr. bullets. Bob338 made comments about Rl-22 and I tried it. Wow! What a difference. I now use a 225 gr. Northfork and 70.5 grs. of Rl-22. In the past, I've always been a Partition fan but have found the Northforks more accurate. Also, to get the same velocity with a Northfork that I did with the Partition, I find I use a bit less powder. The cost of the Northfork is about the same as a Partition.
I worked up my accurate load using 225 gr. Hornadays and a chrono. I then followed the instructions on load work up from Northfork to attain the same velocity. No problems & I'm now a very happy camper. I'd strongly suggest you work your load up using an inexpensive bullet in the weight you wish to hunt with then going to a premium for hunting. In short, if you try one of the 4350's and results are not what you wish, I'd suggest you go straight to Rl-22.
Hope this helps, good luck & have fun.
Bear in Fairbanks

Thank you all for your helpful replies. All I need now is the rifle, which should be ready sometimes in February! Hopefully, I get to look at the barreled action next week or so, and then the stock needs to be ordered etc.

I hope to have a month or so prior to my hunt to try out some of the loads and will definately let you know how I'm doing.

Again, thanks a million!