I've run across some Hornet brass headstamped "S&B". The primer holes are too small to allow the decaping pin from my Forester Bench Rest Die Set to go through and knock out the primer. I've never experienced this before. RP brass works OK though. Any ideas or has anyone seen this before?

Mike,

You poor fellow.

Yes, S&B (aka as Smelly-Bellies, at least for their older shotgun shells manufactured with horsehair felt wads) is Sellier & Belliot (ammunition made in the Czech Republic).

Their cartidge cases, especially the .22 Hornet and some (beacuse you NEVER know) of their .222 & .223 Remingtons are famous for their undersized Flash Holes. The same can apply to their larger cartridge cases as well; I've had 7x57R's, 7x65R's & 9.3x74R's that had Flash Holes too small for regular sized (RCBS) pins also. There's gonna be a whole bunch of swearing & cussing when the de-primer pins either break off or stick in the holes.....you betcha!

For this and other "Quality Control" reasons (although it has improved in the past few years) I pass on their brass. A bag of 100 Remington or Winchester .22 Hornet brass will afford much-o better quality, much less aggrivation & surprises IMO.

Now, if you really have to have S&B brass (why I dunno - but it's your choice) a Sinclair, Lyman or other manufacturer's Flash Hole Uniformer Tool & an Electric Screwdriver will drill them out to normal Flash Hole Pin size.

Gerry, Thanks for the information. The S&B brass was already in the trash when I asked the question. You are most correct, why ask for more work and trouble when brass is not all that expensive. (Smelly-Bellies indeed)

Mike,

You're welcome, I could understand if it was an off-the wall catridge where brass was obscure but not for the aggrivation they tend to cause with more commonly available brass.

We used to just giggle ourselves silly when we'd arrive at a Trap & Skeet range and get a good snootful of what smelled like someone burning a horsehair blanket, kinda nostalgic though.....it was always either the S&B's or the Russian Baikals - Whew!

quote:

The S&B brass was already in the trash when I asked the question.

You may have made a mistake. One of the reasons the 6 PPC is so accurate is that, when made from Russian cases anyway, it has a smaller than SAAMI flash hole. Seems to help get more consistant ignition in small cases so accuracy is impoved. Oh well...

S&B has a reputation for good brass.

quote:

S&B has a reputation for good brass.

Jim,

Let me just , well, Ugh, O.K

Living where I do we see much S&B amunition & componets usually used based on value pricing. I've seen more of it with flaws varying from major to factory ammo with head separations at inital firings.

Couldn't agree more with 22 & 6PPC's enviable track record but not in the case of S&B's 22 Hornet; it does have a reputation here in Europe but not an enviable one.....

People who actually pay attention to scientific experiments (as far back as the Frankford Arsenal tests in the 1920's) in ballistics, especially for small arms, know that milder primer ignition results in better accuracy, for a number of reasons. This is why some brass meant to be used in BR or other precision/long range applications will sometimes have restricted flash holes.

S&B brass is as good as any standard brass made in the US and better than most. (the flasholes being one point in their favor) Their loaded ammo is not always the best it can be.

Shooters of your cartridge in the US have not had the choice of flash holes and so are wary of the brass you have found.

You can buy decapping pins that will work on such brass from Forster. You will see them listed as spcl short or spcl long. If you can't find them that way, look at the list of parts for the 6mm BR rem or 6mm PPC dies. You might want to talk to a Forster tech before buying them for your die. That is, if you ever get any more of them. For anyone else who has NOT thrown out these superior cases, the above applies.

quote:

in the case of S&B's 22 Hornet; it does have a reputation here in Europe but not an enviable one.....

Gerry, I accept your appraisal, quite beating that dead horse!

Note I said "reputation" and that's what I've read, not from personal knowledge of any S&B brass.

But, in the same manner, I've heard many who bash R-P, Fed and WW brass too, none of which is valid in my experience! We do have differnces in the US brands but each has its strengths and weaknesses. None of it is "bad."

Jim-Bob,

That's what this website is all about, you are a True Gentlemean. I'll eat Crow Pie when I'm amiss.

I live in the Land of the .22 Hornet which is the Target cartridge of choice of the Teutons.

I shoot @ 800 .22 Hornets & .222 Remingtons annually in some serious German competition. Small Primer pockets aside, no one who competes seriously in the Major Leagues here shoots S&B, sorry.

quote:

I live in the Land of the .22 Hornet which is the Target cartridge of choice of the Teutons.

Why would that be? (Nothing wrong with that - I might join a target club if I could use a Hornet. Just curious as to why they choose it).

Gerry, which component do you use to reload .22H? Bullet and powder in first istance.
thank you.

I never touch S&B products, because don´t like trouble- and difficult shooting.
I use only Winchester, Remington and of course Lapua and Sako things.



Finland / Fennoscandia.