I just got a winchester 70 300 WSM and am cleaning the bore before I shoot it. Ive scrubbed the bore with a bronze brush and remington bore cleaner for about 50 times and each patch is as black as the first (50 black patches). whats going on here? Is the remington bore cleaner scrubbing away my barrel? My brownells catalogue says that remington bore cleaner is abrasive. When I clean it with just oil theres no more black patches.thanks

Sounds like you now have a .301 WSM...

All bore pastes will blacken the patch as long as you go, they're (mildly) abrasive, remember (BTW, 50 times is a lot !). Clean out the remainder with bore/copper solvent and if no blue shows on the patch, your bbl. is copperfree.

Mate, I'm no expert, but I reckon you're going to wear that barrel out before you fire a shot!!

AFAIK, abrasive cleaners should only be used if there is fouling, or other 'stuff' that won't come out using SOP's.

All it should need is to be swabbed with a good bore solvent, then maybe a few scrubs with a bristle brush, then patches on a jag until they come out clean - as someone mentioned, if their's no 'blue/green' on the patch, the bore's clean.

On my guns, after I've fired 'em, I just swab them with Hoppe's, wait a while, (muzzle down, so the liquid doesn't flow back into the action) give 'em a few scrubs back and forth with a bronze bristle (make sure the brush clears the muzzle, or you'll end up with a stuck brush), let it sit a while again, and then patch out until clean. If the patches aren't clean after say, 5-6 passes, I repeat the process.

Number of shots before a clean? Depends on teh calibre, and where I am at the time - the 270 is usually pretty good for about 30+, the 223 about 20+ before any significant degradation of accuracy. If I'm in the bush hunting, I often don't worry about it for a couple of weeks - it gets done when I get bored or rained in!!

In case you're wondering, I'm not a 'minute of pie plate' hunter, my guns deliver half MOA 5 shot groups or better - reliably - if they don't, I get rid of 'em.

My 2cents. Good luck with the new toy, hope you enjoy it - however, as a gunsmith mate of mine used to say, "more barrels are worn out by being cleaned than fired."

You might try something like this...
Swab the bore heavly with something such as Hopies #9 and let it sit over night. Then, start over. The soaking might losen the crud in your barrel.

Do a search for on these forums for a product called "WipeOut."

It has literally changed my life. My gun cleaning procedure is now as follows:

1. set gun in cleaning "vise"
2. squirt WipeOut in muzzle
3. wait 4-12 hours (depending on gun)
4. run a tight jag/patch through barrel
5. look at all the blue, copper-filled liquid that slithered out the muzzle onto the paper towel below
6. run one more clean patch through barrel
7. oil

Sometimes, I'll have to do a second round like above. It has taken my cleaning time from maybe 2-3 hours per gun to maybe 20-30 minutes. I love it!

what is going on is that you are using too much rem bore scrubber. I doubt that you have hurt it at this point,..but you really need to STOP using it. It is good for initial break-in by polishing the rough spots,..but after that point,..all it is doing is lessening the life of the barrel. Use Shhoters Choice or Montana Extreme solvents and Kroil to season the bore from now on. Later,..once break-in is complete (which I would bet it is with the amount of rem cleaner you have used) then use wipe-out foam for all general cleaning.

No - he is using the stuff the WRONG way...
1. Remcleam, like JB, will always come out black, no matter how clean the barrel is. This does NOT mean that the barrel is fouled.
2. A case of RTFM - you are supposed to use it with a patch, a very specific procedure, 1st lightly oiling the bore and then running a tight-fitting patch from the chamber end to partially out of the muzzle, add remclean, and then work the rod - NOT with a bronze brush! The brush cannot apply pressure to the cleaning abrasive to keep it under pressure in the bore so that it cleans the fouling out, so it won't work. Remclean is a good bore cleaner - but only when used as it should be.
After using the remclean, swab with solvent untill all black is gone, then test with a copper remover solvent. THEN you will know.
If you use Sweet's with a bronze brush, you will also continue to get blue patches - because the brush will give you copper! Basically, the remclean would have been just as useful if you had emptied it into the sink...

Now, if you were to read the instructions on the back, you would have known this - but then, lots of people don't read them, and then complain...
Sorry if I sound a bit unsympathetic, but

Of course, in the original post he did say he was cleaning it BEFORE shooting it.......

One word for barrel cleaning ..... WipeOut. That's it. Get a can and try it for those overnight soakings/cleanings/scrubbings.

I've gone through 2 cans of Wipe-Out now and it is NOT some sort of miracle cleaner. It does a very good job on copper, but not so good on powder/carbon fouling. I've tested a few barrels using Wipe-Out until dry patches came out perfectly clean. Then I soaked them with Shooters Choice (with some Kroil added) for 30 minutes or so followed by 10 or 15 passes with a bronze brush. Then I push a couple more wet patches down the bore followed by dry patches. This procedure has always removed a considerable amount of additional fouling that Wipe-Out and patches alone did not get.

BTW, I'm ordering another couple of cans of Wipe-Out today. I do prefer it now to any other copper solvent.