i have a ruger #1 30-06 i'm messing with.
with 150 gr Hornady BTSP #3033 over 58.0 gr H4831SC i get the first shot 1' high at 125 yds, second shot 1/2" away slightly over and to right, totally acceptable. 3rd shot 2" high straight up over bullseye. let bbl cool 15 minutes, exact same results only first 2 shots 3/4 " group with 3rd shot 2 1/2" high.
47.0 gr WW748 is like patterning a shotgun.
bbl was cleaned b4 use and 2 fouling rds shot.
its a deer rifle with most shots at 100-150 yds so accuracy is in the "acceptable" range, but still..........

While changing powders might help somewhat, this behavior is typical of many Number 1 rifles, two of mine did that too. It is usually caused by the forend applying different pressure to the barrel as it heats up. Modifications to the factory forend bedding helped a lot, but after five shots I always let the barrel cool off somewhat. There could be other causes like internal barrel stresses changing as the barrel heats, but the first thing to check is the forend bedding. He can try removing the forend and rest the hanger on a bag to see if this helps, that would let him know is the forend was part of the problem. That technique adds other variables, but it’s a place to start.

How old? Ruger used Wilson barrels, the bottom of the proverbial barrel of barrel quality, (shooting one or two shots into a group, then flinging the rest two inches out is classic symptom of poor stress relief). Not uncommon. before getting a hammer forging machine in 1990. So if it one of those, it will never do any better.
If it is a later one, it is the forearm. Anyway, why does it matter: How many shots are you shooting at game?
Shooting 5 shots from #1s is a big waste of time. Especially for your range and use; just hunt with it.

I use 4064. For years heard 4350 was THE powder. Tried it and 4064 works better in my rifle.

I would try some 165s or 180s using 4895. But, a #1 is a #1.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
How old? Ruger used Wilson barrels, the bottom of the proverbial barrel of barrel quality, (shooting one or two shots into a group, then flinging the rest two inches out is classic symptom of poor stress relief). Not uncommon. before getting a hammer forging machine in 1990. So if it one of those, it will never do any better.
If it is a later one, it is the forearm. Anyway, why does it matter: How many shots are you shooting at game?
Shooting 5 shots from #1s is a big waste of time. Especially for your range and use; just hunt with it.

not sure how old it is. it was advertised here on AR as a 1B year or so ago. then found out its a franfinstein. (sp)
i put a good scope and trigger on it and have used it as a one shot hunting rifle since. i didn't know about the 2 shots and done with #1s though and am glad to learn its typical and not a sign of something else. will check forend pressure regardless.

My 30-06 shot very well with RL22 with 180gr Sierra's.

Ed Scarboro

That is the exact load I have used in several 30/06 rifles, a Rem 700, a Rem 7400, a Ruger 77 Mark II, a Rem 760 and possibly some I have forgotten, and they were all extremely accurate with this load. I also shot the Hornady IL 180 grain bullet over 59 grains of H4831 and H4831SC in some of those rifles with stellar accuracy. I agree with TX Nimrod that the barrel may have pressure points causing it to open up groups.

I would try a different load. You are using a secant ogive bullet (which can be finicy re; seating depth) with powders that are either on the fast side of the usual 06 spectrum or slow side.

I would suggest trying some sierras, speers, noslers, core locts or? with a powder closer to a 4350 burn rate. Dont give up on a barrel just because one bullet with two different powders sucks. Experiment.

not rich enough to give up on the bbl and have too many hornady 150 grn bullets i'm loading to justify more/diff. have been shooting whitetail in texas for many years and found the 150 gr RNSP to be the best weight and configuration for 308 and 30-06 as far as dropping em when hit. we have used berger HP hunting bullets in 180 grn and others gummy tips but nothing puts em down like the 150 gr soft points. out to 150 yds. prefer RL15 and Varget but good luck getting any more. and have 10 lbs of H4831SC so there it is.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
How old? Ruger used Wilson barrels, the bottom of the proverbial barrel of barrel quality, (shooting one or two shots into a group, then flinging the rest two inches out is classic symptom of poor stress relief). Not uncommon. before getting a hammer forging machine in 1990. So if it one of those, it will never do any better.
If it is a later one, it is the forearm. Anyway, why does it matter: How many shots are you shooting at game?
Shooting 5 shots from #1s is a big waste of time. Especially for your range and use; just hunt with it.

If it is an older 1980's rifle, I was told that Ruger bought up all the 'seconds' [barrels] and used them!

Wow for a RELOADING forum you guys are not imparting much advice or knowledge to the guys problem.
First off have you ever tried to "work up" an accurate load for the rifle?
You can't just pick a load out of a book and say I want my rifle to shoot "that one".
There are several methods to working up accurate loads for rifles and I'm not going to explain them here when they are available in most reloading manuals as basic information.
Sierra has a great article called "how to find the most accurate load for your rifle" google it.
Also the Satterlee method has become a widely accepted method to find the most accurate powder charge with the projectile and powder you select, it is as easy as they come.
Even if you have a "junk" barrel you can still find your rifles most accurate load it just might not be as accurate as you want. Some rifles you can't "make" them shoot the bullet or powder you want you have to figure out what that rifle likes. You want it to shoot 150's it may like 180's, you want it to shoot 4831, it wants IMR 4350.
If it were me and 150's aren't working "after" you work up a load then switch to 180's.
I have yet to see a 30/06 that doesn't show signs of good accuracy with 180 grain Sierra Gamekings and IMR4350 powder.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
not rich enough to give up on the bbl and have too many hornady 150 grn bullets i'm loading to justify more/diff. have been shooting whitetail in texas for many years and found the 150 gr RNSP to be the best weight and configuration for 308 and 30-06 as far as dropping em when hit. we have used berger HP hunting bullets in 180 grn and others gummy tips but nothing puts em down like the 150 gr soft points. out to 150 yds. prefer RL15 and Varget but good luck getting any more. and have 10 lbs of H4831SC so there it is.

So "if" you are stuck on those components and don't want to change look up the Satterlee method and in just 12 or 15 shots you will have the most accurate powder charge figured out for the bullet and powder you selected. After that you can play with the seating depth to fine tune it if need be.
There are many articles and youtube videos explaining the Satterlee method.

and since theres no powder shortages of the diff powders i may need i'll just go shit out a pound or 2 till i find what works? see, this is what takes the fun out of it for a lotta guys. i'm not trying to set world records here, or sit up nights stressing about this or that "method". its a short range HUNTING rifle. if i can get 3 shots in 1" i'll be happy with it, starting with the simplest fixes first. i'm working on relieving fore end pressure points now. it will already put 2 shots in less than that. what would you consider next? weighing cases, bullets, primers? cleaning/reaming primer pockets? concentricity gages? been there done that. lifes too short.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
and since theres no powder shortages of the diff powders i may need i'll just go shit out a pound or 2 till i find what works? see, this is what takes the fun out of it for a lotta guys. i'm not trying to set world records here, or sit up nights stressing about this or that "method". its a short range HUNTING rifle. if i can get 3 shots in 1" i'll be happy with it, starting with the simplest fixes first. i'm working on relieving fore end pressure points now. it will already put 2 shots in less than that. what would you consider next? weighing cases, bullets, primers? cleaning/reaming primer pockets? concentricity gages? been there done that. lifes too short.

having said all that, i started reloading in 1966 in high school, continued thru 27 years in various "gun" jobs, competed at FT Bliss in the service rifle division, blah blah blah. so i do have some experience, and preferences. i do decap with a universal decap die, FL size with competetion dies, use a sinclair neck ID mandrel, trim with a giraud, etc etc. and i did look at 2 of the satterlee vids. most of it was nothing new, just WAAAY too far down the rabbit hole with chronos and the neck turning for F class (which a lot of F class guys disagree with). in any case, in MY case, i'm gonna use what i already GOT, and tinker a little and go from there. BTW, the giraud etc is for ease of case prep for my hands, not to jump down the rabbit holes.

Like I said if you are stuck on those 2 components then why wouldn't you run a Satterlee ladder?
All it does is helps you find the most accurate powder charge with the powder and bullet you are using.
No neck turning, nothing complicated. No diving down rabbit holes....
You can figure out your most accurate powder charge by running 10 shots over a chrony then fine tune it if you want.
By the way powder is available if you look for it, just had a 40 pound order come in the other day IMR4350, H110, Reloader 15. I saw it in stock, teamed up with a buddy, ordered it and it was here in a week.

quote:

carpetman1
one of us

I use 4064. For years heard 4350 was THE powder. Tried it and 4064 works better in my rifle.

I use IMR4064 also up to 150s 165-180 grain, its 4350

quote:

Originally posted by vines:

quote:

carpetman1
one of us

I use 4064. For years heard 4350 was THE powder. Tried it and 4064 works better in my rifle.

I use IMR4064 also up to 150s 165-180 grain, its 4350

I agree with your methods Vines.
Personally I don't need 150's in a 30/06 so I use IMR4350 for 165 and 180's and have been using some reloader 17 with 165's with excellent results.
I know people that load 150's in 30/06's and 4064 seems to be a preferred choice.

quote:

Snellstrom
posted 12 July 2022 02:42

I know people that load 150's in 30/06's and 4064 seems to be a preferred choice.

My current 30.06 load shoots Barnes TTSX 130 gn. The propellant is IMR4064 - just excellent.

Probably not the gun or the load..Check your bedding or have a gunsmith check your bedding, sounds like perhaps the barreled action might be slightly loose and your getting some movement...

That 3rd shot being higher than the first two can indicate the 3rd (or 3rd and 4th shot in 5 shot groups) is high because the recoil lug or the tang area is too low, the first shot will be the central impact area..and thats an easy fix. You may want to place a peice of match cover on top of the tang, and test that, maybe two shims..When you get it too shoot and its trying, then glass bed it based on what worked if its a factory stock, not a custom stock.

For this kind of a problem a 5 shot group will tell you more. a guns pattern can tell you a story, to build a accurate gun one must know how to read a pattern..

well i relieved the bbl channel, added a small dop of bedding at the end of the forearm, and test fired it today. 3 shots formed an almost perfect 1" triangle at 125 yds. didn't go any further as had 3 rifles to sight in and already had sweat dripping into eyes at 9AM under a covered bench. got back at 10:45 over the dirt roads and drank an ice cold beer. best one i ever had. 5 oclock somewhere right?

You don't need to look any further, thats real world accuracy IMO, some shoot a tad better but SO WHAT, thats just bragging rights I suppose, not needed for a hunter...

yea, i'm gonna stick with it. i know that tomorrow i could shoot a 3/4" group and the day after a inch and a half group but for a hunting rifle i'm not going down that rabbit hole. if i can duplicate the 1" group a few more times i'm finished.