Which are benefits of AI cartridge??
More soulder angle permit more case capacity?? but also more pressure?? And why more shoulder angle is better for accuracy??

Straighter sides and sharp shoulders increase case capacity a little, and hence, increase velocity, providing powder of the correct burning rate is available. But sharp shoulders, indeed, shoulder angle, has nothing to do with accuracy.

[ 02-24-2003, 00:40: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Typically, cartridges are "improved" to gain velocity. A side benefit is that case stretch is reduced a little also.

Improved shoulders provide better extraction and less brass flow, but I have found that primer holes take more of a beating since all that force has to go somewhere.

Deke.

As a former Ackley improved owner, I'll speak of the downsides of the round. The straighter body won't feed as well out of the magazene as a tapered case that the parent magazine was designed for. Reloading dies are more exspensive. Brass is more exspensive because it has to be fireformed. The real world improvement in velocity is 50 fps, if that.

The previous posters statement is scary when he says that the straight body increases the pressure on the primer pocket What he is saying is he's fallen for the ackley mith that you safely gain 150 fps. The only way to get that much more speed is by running at unsafe pressure levels.

I dont think it is a good idea to lump ALL of the AI cases into one generalized disgussion since the gains achieved have considerable variation.

I think alot of the preform of AI calibers comes from upped operating pressures. Examples are the .223 and .280. Both have a SAAMI spec max presure in the mid or high 50,000psi.

Now most the guys loading AI cartridges, are looking for pressure signs, to know when to stop. Presure signs show at the high side of 60,000psi. So did that preformance come from the few grains more powder capacity or from the 10,000psi(or more) added to the operating presure.

Is nearly the same up in preformance gained if you just loaded the standard chamber to 68,000psi?

Common agreed advantages are reduced case stretching and impressive looking brass with cool looking sholders.

Disadvantages are way more expensive dies. Resale value suffering, unless you find the guy that wants the exact same rifle you had made.

Kristofer

Wstrnhntr makes a good point. Not all improved cartridges are created equal. I like the 22-250 AI and really like the 257 AI. I believe the 280 version to be a waste of time, money and effort. I reamed a nice 7X57 to 7X57 AI and wish I hadn't.

Velocity gains vary with the particular cartridge and with bullet weight. Typically the heavier the bullet the more benefit (in velocity) from the AI. They do not feed quite as smoothly as their parent cases but that is easily corrected with a little work on the ramp. I think the cost of the dies is a non issue -- what's 30 bucks in the overall cost of a custom rifle.

Like I said before I really like the 257 AI. If someone ofered to sell me identical rifles in 257 Roberts and 257 AI and wanted 20% more for the AI I would take the Ackley and run. Why? Because it will do everything the Roberts will do and a bit more.

I really like my 257 RAI [best gun I ever had], but the Bart Bobbitt's formula for compeditive barrel life comes in around 1300 rounds

That is not a problem for big game, but for varmints and targets, that is a problem.

Paul H.
Could you explain to me why you say that brass is more expensive because you have to fireform? What does fireforming have to do with the cost of brass? And which of Ackleys chamberings only display a 50 fps gain in velocity?

Jim,

The cost of the bullet, primer and powder to fireform the case adds to the cost of the brass.

Paul,
It seems to me that the first time you load virgin brass or fire factory ammunition you are "fireforming" whether you are shooting a factory offering or a wildcat. Just the fact that you are shooting a wildcat doesn't add anything to the cost of brass.
Jim

Theoretically, and "all other factors being equal", (which they never are), the more powder you burn, the higher the velocity you can attain! What keeps us from being able to do this in the real world, is that often, past a certain cse capacity, we don't have suitably slow-burning powders, and/or we don't have a barrel long enough to burn what we ARE sing!! I don't know how true it is, but not too long ago, I read somewhere that to get maximum performace out of rounds like the .30/.378 Weatherby, you would have to have a barrel close to 40" or so. But it sounds reasonable!!

I think the Ackley improved case is a great design (I own two, 257 rob. imp and a 30-06 imp). It will outperform the standard round, but it is definately more expensive in terms of time and money. If you are are handloader and like to sqeeze the most out of a particular cartridge, while staying within SAMMI specs, then I highly recommend the AI version. I get an honest 200fps. gain in my 06imp with 180gr. bullets and about 150fps in the 257imp. with the 117gr. Hornady SST. Both of my rifles have 24" barrels.
Brass is NOT more expensive for the AI versions. I never hunt with factory virgin brass in any caliber. Every piece of brass is fireformed in my chamber weather it is an AI or a standard round. I have fireformed brass by running bullets down the barrel and I have used the "cream of wheat" method in my garage when I couldn't make it to the range. I like the thought of going to the range to work up loads with fireformed brass and the COW method saves an extra trip to the range. Both systems work so you can use whichever is best for you.
I love my AI rounds and I think you will to!!
Elk Country

I shoot a 17AI, 22-250AI, 7-08AI, 280AI all of them shoot below .500 every time out. I have never had a round not chamber. My 7-08AI has a 20inc barrel and I get 2970fps with 140BTs no signs of pressure and I have shot these case's 12 times and they are still fine. My 280AI was a 280 first and it was more accurate after making it a improved. The 280AI is a great round if you utilize it. Just talk to Darryl Holland�s, Steve Tim, and a lot of others.

The bottom line is more velocity 100fps or more with everyone I own, Long case life, and rarely have to trim brass. Because of the change in the case try different powders you may be surprised.

Now you are doing this with more pressure, But the AI case seems to handle it better than standard cases. I load hot and never had any more problems then i would with a standard case, Just less.

Frank, any knowledge you may bestow upon me with reguards to recipes for the 280AI you have?

I have a 9 twist, 28" barrel.

Thanks

One more consideration. Is the slight increase in velocity worth the exspense and $ to obtain it? Has there ever been a situation in the field, where an extra 50-100 fps makes the difference between a killing shot, and a wound? Will it make the difference in trajectory? Then answer is no.

If you want enough speed to truly make a difference, then you need more then 5% more powder, and 50-100 fps more speed. The answer in that case is a belted mag, or larger case. Yes, you burn more powder still, but pick up 200-300 fps, and that much gain does make for flatter shooting, and harder hitting.

I used to be an Ackley fan when I owned one, but then the reality donned on me. Faster is all good and fine, but make it fast enough to really make a difference.

Paul,

I'm guessing your opinion is based upon chamberings that are moving much greater bullet weights than what has most often mentioned thus far in this Thread.

You know that I am a devout Improved cartridge Slut but it is also obvious that our tastes differ in chamberings. The chamberings that appeal to me personally,are generally fast movers to start with and benefit from the increased capacity potential of the typical Ackley 40degree case design.

I've played with a herd of them and have never yielded a mere 5% capacity increase. The 223AI is a favorite of naysayers,but it too will realize a 10% gain in H2O. Couple that gain,with data that grants speed to the parent 223Rem hull and results realized are in check.

Hell,even Nosler grants speeds over 3800fps with a 40gr BT outta a 24" 223. Up capacity 10%,realize only half of that percentage in speed and you are very quickly in the 4000fps realm. No smoke,no mirrors,just a bigger motor fueled with propellant geared towards it. Same goes 50's in the same case at over 3700fps.

None of it a fly by night operation. The 25-06Ackley is another splendid example and when fueled with Re-22 and 100's it is amazing. The 22-250Ackley another great one,as it's capacities exceed that of the venerable Swift. No flies on the 243AI either and I'm partial to my 375H&H Ackley as well(though my preference has swayed to the 338Ultra).

Case life is case life and it is a very good barometer IMHO. If a guy is losing pockets in just a coupla firings,he is either using Norma brass(grin),or is treading on the far side of excessive pressures. That regardless of case design.

I've simply shot and got too many Improved chamberings to dismiss their real world gains as folly.

Without doubt,there are designs that will realize greater benefits than others. I've no craving to build a 300WSM 40degree chambering for instance,nor the 284Win hull of the same ilk.

I respect your opinion and this is respectfully submitted. Build a 223AI and live a little(grin)...............

I currently own a 338-06 AI and have found that in this case, it really isn't worth it. The gain is very small. And I think I'm seeing the same thing that Paul H had seen in his 35 Whelen AI.

At the same time, Big Stick has pointed to a number of cases where there is a fair gain with the AI. The 300 Weatherby for example, is a great case in point. Essentially it's a 300 H&H with an 'improved' Weatherby shoulder. In order to get the gains you may want, be sure to select the proper cartridge, or simply go to a bigger case.

Turok

"Bigger" comes in several ways and the Improved chamberings often interest me,as they offer more capacity without other sacrifices.

Some of those sacrifices are bolt face mod's,as required for bumping to a larger case head. Sacrifices involving magazine box,length constraint issues. Also thoughtfulness in yielding improved performance,while utilizing plentiful/inexpensive hulls of good quality(223,308,'06).

Give me a 223AI over a 22-250(cheap brass,that yields excellent performance with light-midweight projectiles).

Give me a 22-250AI over a Swift(increased capacity,less trimming and utilizing plentiful/inexpensive brass)

Give me a 243AI over a HUGE .224" centerfire(great capacity,with wiggle room for bullet seating depth within a 2.800" mag box and boasting plentiful/inexpensive brass,then the ability to digest higher BC projectiles)

Give me a 25-06AI over the 25-06(nice performance that improves upon the parent chambering and yet boasts plentiful/inexpensive brass and increased round count within the magazine) Round count as opposed to an H&H or WSM/SAUM/Ultra spawned creation. But my truest love is the 257Wby,which is a shortened AND improved H&H case design.

Give me the 30-8mmRemmag,in a portable sane length 30cal sporter(incredible performance,that utilizes the basic full lengthed 300H&H case design and not hyper dependant upon exceptional barrel lengths)In a nutshell,it cooks out of 26 inches of barrel length.

Coming full circle,the 338WSM will run away from a 338-06 and a 338-06AI both,plus do it within a "short" action. The WSM boasts minimal taper and a sharp shoulder,but gives up one poke in the mag box.

Again more commentary on the 338 rounds in general. I believe the .338" is a diameter in which nice things come easily at first,then there are genuine hurdles to cross. It's road is bumpier than many,in that regard.

Point being,the 338-08 in a mag box suited towards it,does nice things. The 338-284,even more beneficial.

The 338-06 employs an action length geared to more throating leeway and that's a good thing.

In my opinion,the 338Win is a dog,as far as propellant used and performance realized.

However,once you cross that velocity barrier and once again increase capacity,shit really starts happenin'. Enter the 338Ultra.

But the amount of propellant increase required from the 338-06 to the 338Ultra,with both slinging optimal loads,is rather drastic.

That point is meant to illustrate that a moderate increase in the 338-06's case capacity,is NOT gonna radically bolster it's projectile's performance(regardless of weight).

In comparison: Grant the 25-06 that same increase and your chronograph will capably notice a distinct difference.

Here endeth my thoughts for the evening................

I'm with big Stick. I too favor the Ackley's, having owned a 338-06AI some years back, and currently own a 375 WhnAI now.
For me, up in North Alaska, where shipping primers and powder are more then very expensive to begin with (the local store will sell a pound of powder for $40 if you're desperate), I'd rather load more ammo per pound and get suitable and pleasing results with an Ackley, then have to do the same with a magnum and burn more powder.
For me, magnums cost more per cartridge. The Ackley is a cheaper way to obtain pleasing results. ~~~Suluuq

If the AI cartridges had no benefits over the parent round they would not be as popular as they are. I have a few AI,s and love every one .

Hi guys. I am planning a 7mm mauser ackley improved on the new montana short action. According to my measurements, it should fit the short action perfect with the bullets seated well out of the powder space. I have searched the various forums and find few others seem to have improved the 7mm mauser. Is the case weaker somehow, maybe in the web area? And if some of you folks have tried this case, can you please let me know how you liked it? thanks

Paul H,

Being the previous poster I will address your comments accordingly. I am an Improved (including Ackley) fan as you obviously are not. I am in good company to say that the primer pockets will take a beating as I have experienced it w/other "improved" cartridges (namely my .30Gibbs). A point of misunderstanding between us may be that I am thinking mostly of the Gibbs case when commenting on primer pockets and you are thinking AI. However, my comment regarding extraction and brass flow most certainly apply. My comment on the primer pockets is a sound theory w/the AI, but fact w/my Gibbs. Rocky Gibbs also experienced and said it noting that normal pressures (and he did have access and use of pressure equip) would result in stretched primer pockets. As I understand it, he was never able to correctly determine the reason. My guess is that things give most readily at their weakest point. When brass flow is curtailed by the improved shoulders, I believe that more stress is realized in the primer pocket area since stress on the brass has no where else to go. Will agree with you on feeding issues (that can be remedied), but that is it. I get plenty more powder and velocity out of my Gibbs. Keep in mind that the extraction/brass flow/primer pockets were the points of my comments. You were incorrect to assume the myth/fps/safe pressure issues you assumed. Perhaps I am off base in lumping my Gibbs thoughts in w/the Ackley and if so my apologies.

Deke.

Turok: I understand from your earlier post regarding your 338-06 AI that you feel the small velocity gain from the Ackley Improved version of your cartridge is "not worth it"; but what disadvantages have you experienced in shooting the AI version as compared to the "standard" version? Has the fireforming of cartridges proven to be burdensome?

In weighing cases and case capacity, the standard round held 68.6 gr of water when completely filled. The improved version held 71.7 gr of water when completely filled. Both cases weighed 200 gr. So all in all, I gained 3.1 gr of capacity, or 4.4% over the standard round. What this actually translates to in powder capacity, or even gains in velocity is negligable.

The gain in this case could easily be made up for in variances between bbl.'s, a combination of powder/primer/case etc.

Case forming never bothered me. As was already stated, every case regardless of being standard or AI has to be fireformed in order to achieve top accuracy. In hunting loads, I always use once fired brass as well.

So when I say it isn't worth it, I mean it in a relative way. If you are building a 338-06 from scratch (like I did), it may be better to go with the AI from the get go. If you already have a 338-06, the small gain would hardly be worth the cost of having it rechambered to 338-06AI. Especially since you have the additional charges of picking up another set of dies and new brass to boot. You may as well move up to 338 WM for the same cost. That's what I'm having done to my 338-06AI as we speak. Should be back in time for spring bear.

Turok

PS. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the 338-06AI, I just wanted a little more in velocity, and in safety margin (lower pressures for same velocity).

I have a .280 AI on a Rem 700 action with a 26" Douglas premium. I wanted to shoot 160's and 175's with a little more poop than the std case was giving me. I know a 7 Rem MAG would have done that,but I have always liked the looks of the various AI cases.

Long story short, I picked up roughly 125 extra fps with NO loss in accuracy. AND I like the look of those sexy cases too.

AI chamberings are not for everyone. But if your a reloading nut who likes something different...... go for it.

FN in MT

If it gets you thru the winter then get one. They are no big deal either way and take a microscope to measure any benefit.

I shot my dad's old 06 today that stays loaded with 200 gr Speers. It's sort of a odd ball magnum as it's got an improved chamber.

The 30/06 neck looks even longer when it's "improved" and it goes with that telephone pole of a bullet.

Seems that different tastes either like or dislike the AI's for different reasons. Im going with a 257 AI because it is a natural for a Mauser action and performs beyond what a cartridge its size is "supposed" to be able to. Paul makes some good points but there are simply more pronounced alterations in some cases than others, I dont think there is much change in the Whelen case when it is improved, there isnt much shoulder to alter. But others have a very noticable change.

Also I was doing a rebbl anyway and the chambering didnt cost any extra. I can fireform with varmint loads and use them afterwards for deer, and since it performs like a 25-06 with less powder I see that as being ahead in the powder question. The only extra expense I really have is the dies, but for another 25 bucks Ive got exactly the gun I want.

No such animal as a 243 Ackley Improved, Ackley never improved that one, it just a 243 improved and this applies to a few others mentioned..This is to lay a basis for the next statement which is"

Ackley said the only two calibers worth improving in his experience were the 257 Robt. an the the 7x57 Mauser....All the rest of his work was for naught....for what its worth.

IMHO, improving a 257 and a 7x57 is an oxymoron..can't be done..They are near perfect for their intended use as can be.

I think "Ackley Improved",is a moniker of respect and gratitude in many offerings,though maybe not 100% perfectly accurate.

Though P.O. might not have waved his wand over every Improved chambering currently in vogue,nor for every reamer on the shelves or dies in the catalogs,most follow his train of thought and basic blueprint. That thought is minimal sidewall taper and the typical 40 degree shoulder. P.O.'s influences remain profound.

As far as the Bob and the 7 Mauser,they really aren't my flavor,though the Bob Improved and 7 Mauser Ackley are better mousetraps in my opinion,than their respective parent offerings. However,there are better designs,for the actions I prefer.

I remain a fan of the Ackley Improved case design and the 40 degree versions are most to my liking..........

I can't remember the actual speed of the 55gr Nosler in a 22/250, but with a 22/250 AI 40X I had built several years ago by Shilen, I could get a little over 4000fps. I'll admit that's pushing cases to the max, but I have to say, that at that speed, the gun was benchrest accurate. I hit some groundhogs at distances you would swear I'm lying about if I told you. I don't think I could have hit them with other slower rounds.
I'll be the first to admit, you don't really need that kind of speed, but it sure was fun to play with. It was possible to shoot less than 1/2" at 200 yards with that gun.
I once made a shot at a range with that gun that sure amazed the bejesus out of everyone that was there, and I think the flat trajectory was responsible for it.
They're not for everyone, but I sure had a lot of fun with that gun, and needless to say, when I was ready to sell it, I had buyers lined up to take it off my hands.. most with the "name your price" attitude.

I patiently await my first rifle that is either too fast,or too accurate(grin)..................

Wildcats are wildcats, and I own a bunch. I don't own any AI's any more, although I do have a G33/40 custom in 257 which I am thinking of doing, for the reason Ray mentioned. It's one of the few that gets a big boost. This is simply because it has one of the largest percentage case capacity increases.

One reason I don't fool with AI's is that they do give minimal gain. Not over factory loads, but over what can be obtained with factory cases. One number was mentioned, but I believe the correct ballistic rule is that a 10% gain in capacity yields about 3% in performance, in the same gun. At a loading giving 2700fps, that would be an increase of about 80 fps. This is close to what my experience, and that of a lot of people I know, has been in practice. Again, this is apples to apples. Take the factory round, develop maximum loads, then rechamber with no other changes and do it again. Someone mentioned the Gibbs cartridges and primer pockets. These are a classic example. The loads which were put out for these when developed all ran 60,000psi or more.

There are some reasons to consider an AI chamber. It can help brass stretching and can give longer case life. For reloaders, this is important. The same is true of a K-Hornet.

Ackley made many more wildcats that weren't AI's. When he wanted a significant increase, he went to a bigger case. The drive for the AI was always a minor increase while being able to chamber factory ammo.

Someone asked why the AI's were never commercialized. It is primarily because of the shoulder. It is impossible to economically draw cases with shoulders this cheap. About 35 degrees is considered the outside limit, as is used on the 284 Winchester. Going above this really costs. This cost and difficulty is often given as one of the reasons for the high price of Rigby brass.

One final comment regards the question of loose primer pockets on Ackley brass. You can bet this is due to high pressure. It is not because the brass has nowhere to go. The fact is, at acceptable pressures with a good case design, the brass doesn't go anywhere; it's not supposed to. It only starts flowing and stretching inelastically when pressures go into the 70,000 range. The head in particular would be the last place this would occur. Cartridges are not heat treated homogenously. Look at a new 458 case. The head is much harder than the shoulder/neck area by design. That's why you have to anneal so carefully.

Art S.,

Good post. I want to challenge the notion that the Gibbs primer pockets stretch and brass flow is a result of excessively high pressure. If this were true the first (or 2nd for that matter) full power firing of a Gibbs would produce stretching. When fired under safe pressures, they don't until the case has been loaded 3-5 times, then they start stretching. Rocky Gibbs also very clearly noted this and did use pressure testing equipment to confirm safe pressures when making this observation. As for brass flow, safe pressures easily cause this or else most of us would not be trimming. With the particular rifle I am discussing, I stretch a pocket on the first two firings, if the pocket can not hold the primer securely after 10 firing, or I see head stamping anytime, I have gone too far. My conclusion on pocket stretching & brass flow is that all of the brass gets softer (repeatedly annealed, etc.) after repeated firings and you start to see more stretching and brass flow.

As for others questions as to AI, its hot rodding, and to some like me it is fun. If you are not satisfied w/AI then go Gibbs. With 150gr NBT's, my .30Gibbs is 75fps 2.5%+ more powerful than the safest .30-06AI handloads and 150fps 5%+ more powerful than the safest .30-06 handloads. Its not a 300 magnum, but using .5gr less powder than a .300SAUM it safely shoots only 50fps slower. It is also important to note that you can put 4 AI or Gibbs cartridges in a standard commercialized mauser magazine (you can do 3 short mags or 3 regular mags).

I would agree that if you already have a .30-06, the AI might not be worth it to some, but I believe the Gibbs is. If you are starting from scratch, then the AI and certainly the Gibbs are worth it.

Deke.

I am considering a .338 WSM in a new short action rifle. So I am reading the following information so as to make an informed choice.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Big Stick:


Coming full circle,the 338WSM will run away from a 338-06 and a 338-06AI both,plus do it within a "short" action. The WSM boasts minimal taper and a sharp shoulder,but gives up one poke in the mag box.

Again more commentary on the 338 rounds in general. I believe the .338" is a diameter in which nice things come easily at first,then there are genuine hurdles to cross. It's road is bumpier than many,in that regard.

Point being,the 338-08 in a mag box suited towards it,does nice things. The 338-284,even more beneficial.

The 338-06 employs an action length geared to more throating leeway and that's a good thing.

In my opinion,the 338Win is a dog,as far as propellant used and performance realized.

However,once you cross that velocity barrier and once again increase capacity,shit really starts happenin'. Enter the 338Ultra.

But the amount of propellant increase required from the 338-06 to the 338Ultra,with both slinging optimal loads,is rather drastic.

That point is meant to illustrate that a moderate increase in the 338-06's case capacity,is NOT gonna radically bolster it's projectile's performance(regardless of weight).

Here endeth my thoughts for the evening................

---

From what I gather from the above the .338 WSM is better than other cartridges of less capacity because it's sort of "improved" and fit's in a short action.

That the .338 Win Mag is not a good cartridge from what you get back from the powder burned but that the .338 Ultra is.

But that increasing the velocity over that of the 338/06 is not going to improve the bullets performance very much.

There is nothing like a good review to explain things.

Don,you strive hard to fuck up the obvious. But I'll humor your nitwittedness and elaborate.

The WSM is of enough more capacity,to do things that a 308 based 338" cartridge simply cannot. Capacity is that key.

The WSM round is also of more performance than the 338-06/338-06AI. Capacity is that key.

The 338Win mag is most often based upon a full length H&H action(Ruger the noticeable exception). It is an abbreviated hull,with abbreviated potential. The 338WSM will tread closely to it's heels,while still maintaining the ability of being housed within a short action's confines. Them is good things IMHO.

So to seperate from the performance of the 338WSM/338Win,you gotta add more gas. The Ultra adds enough gas,to turn it into another "class" of cartridge. Mine dotes on the 210XLC at 3400fps,with Re-22. That sorta juice is multiple rungs up the performance ladder,from any of the cartridges mentioned prior. That was/is crystaline.

I've shot and seen enough shot with that combo(Ultra/210XLC),to think that it very much alters terminal effects. It is unbelievably convincing in all regards and only my 378Wby did such things to critters.

My point was/is,that the 338-08 will do suprisingly well pushing those bullets. It is not operating at break neck speeds,because it can't. However,it likely brings more to the table than most would infer. The popular term would be that it is suprisingly "efficient".

The 338-06/06AI does a smidge more. The WSM/338Win more yet. If a short action were upon my menu,I'd do the WSM Thing,'cuz it offers much in a little package. While it's "efficiency" rating may be lesser than the 338-08,it's performance is not.

Going to an H&H lengthed action,the Ultra is my choice,as it brings more to the ball.

So those bullets sorta start moving easily(the 308 based hull),then more can be had(Whizzum/338Win),but to get those big bastards on step you need much more ponies and the Ultra IS it. Diminishing returns,same as any other diameter,but the performance speaks for itself and it is on tap should one be so inclined.

So opting to Improve the 338-06 isn't gonna grant it 338WSM,Winnie or Ultra speeds.

Bet your ass,the percentage of velocity gain in the 25-06AI soundly trumps that of the 338-06AI. Bet them cheeks again,that the 257-300Ultra is too much of a good thing. Same goes a 257-300Ultra Ackley Improved

When full throttling .257" projectiles,make mine the 257Wby. In the .338" diameter,my preference is the Ultra.

Efficiency be damned..................

Then Ray Atkinson was wrong when he said that "At some range every 300 magnum becomes a 30/06"!

It's so funny when a fan of medium bore cartridges like myself with over 35 years of success reads something with such clear prose. It really scatters the bullshit when it's presented that way.