Dear all,
I have never crimped my bullets, nor have I ever loaded for handguns. So I'm in dire need of some help.

A friend of mine wants to load a special bullet (a copy of the French "THV" brass bullet) in .38 Spc and .357 Mag. He believes he needs a crimp, but thus far has no die to do this.

The bullet is extremely light (45 grs), the original THV was apparently a French police bullet design intended for extremely high velocity (2625 fps from a 4" .357 Mag barrel), low recoil and no bullet exit from target. The shock effect is supposed to have been high (bullet has a cavity in the back, and supposedly expands at impact, but from the back rather than from the front).

The bullet has a bunch of deep grooves (not really crimp grooves). I might be able to post a picture tomorrow, but I have forgotten how to do so now, and am working from the computer of my friend.

Any ideas what type of crimp would work for an application like this? I seem to remember that some of you were happy with a "roll crimp", but have no clue whether this is better than any other crimp type?? Ideas about dies suited for the purpose would also be appreciated.

Btw, my friend would also like to know if anybody has suggeestions for powders for such ultra-light bullets in a .38 Spc or .357 Mag? Apparently, it is not so easy to replicate the original factory data. My friend is currently experimenting with H110, but would like options for other powders.

Thanks for any help in advance
-mike

Two style of crimp, roll and taper. The roll crimp is used in most applications where the shell is not headpsacing on the mouth of the case. Taper crimping is used in auto round like 9mm and 45 ACP where they headspace on the mouth.

For this application I belive you would be shooting out of a revolver. The 357/38 die have that die with it usually. I belive that you will need a cripm. The first reason is that you don't want the bullets to pull out of the case under recoil. (This can happen when crimps are used even in big bores.) Bullet neck tension will help but I think a crimp will be needed. The second reason is to help generate pressure even as the powder burns. If a good crimp isn;t used with H110 or 296 sometime erratic speed and deviations can occur.

As for the bullet I would try to use one of the grooves for a cripm groove. You can use just a little indentation for this. I can't remember if the THV is a jacket lead bullet?

Hope this helps

Hcliff

Thanks a ton for that Hcliff! I have been trying to make head or tail of this crimping issue by reading on AR, and have finally come to the conclusion that a good way to go seems to be with a Lee "Factory Carbide Crimp Die". A lot of people here seem to like that die and what it offers.

The THV bullet is a brass-only bullet, no core/jacket. I have found a couple of references to it in here, just in case anybody might be interested. Apparently, it is banned in the States (penetrates body armor). I haste to add, that this feature is of no interest to my friend, who is a tinkerer at heart and apparently is capable of building copies of this bullet.

THV bullet discussion #1

THV]http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=010010]THV bullet discussion #2

I think I may have overstated the velocity to be expected from this bullet a tad last night, but I was too tired to log in again and correct myself. Apparently the 2600fps is a factory claim, I have seen measured velocities quoted in a German magazine between 2400 and 2500 fps out of a 4" .357 Mag. barrel. Still darn fast, if you ask me!

My friend would still like to hear opinions on powder suitable for such light bullets in a .38 Spc or a .357 Mag - should any of you have any ideas, they would be much appreciated.

Finally, here is a picture (hopefully, I'm no wizzard at posting pictures) of a THV bullet. Note the large cavity in the back of the bullet - the bullet is basically hollow "from the back" so to speak. Funnily enough, because of its construction, I believe the bullet is classifed as "allowed" by the Geneva Convention, which disallowes the use of expanding bullets for military purposes. In reality, the bullet apparently does expand, it is designed for max shock and lowest possible penetration.



- mike

[ 10-31-2003, 13:49: Message edited by: mho ]

I have a thought for you I would think you might want to go with a faster burning powder with that light bullet. It will take a lot of H-110 or powders like that for that weight of bullet. Lee factory is the easest way to go with out a dought. As said in the other post a heavy crimp best with slower burning powers like H-110. Another thing to remember is Hodgen doesn't recomend reduceing loads more than 5% with H-110. I use Unique with 125 gr hollow points & get great results have not chronograthed the load so not sure of speed but shoots great.

Thanks for that BossMoss. I'll pass the suggestion about Unique onto my friend!
- mike