I am in need of some data from an old article in AMERICAN HANDGUNNER march/april 1987 [?].It could have been in another rag of the time possibly GW or Guns.

It was a writeup by Joe Zambone on homemade shot loads for the 44 mag using Sabots from R&R Sabots [Danbury Ct].

It gave loading data and some construction methods for making the bullets using epoxy and different size shot all glued into these sabots.

These were some of his early experiments that later lead to his MAGSAFE Ammo line [IIRC] , similar to the Glasers.

After a house fire a few years back I lost this article and if it rings a bell for any of you I would definitely appreciate a copy of the load data....seems to me I remember it was using mostly 2400 for powder.

Thanks for any help
Wes in AZ

Hey Wes, I can't help you with the article you are asking about. However, if you have a Speer Manual, there are Loads shown for the Speer Shotshell Capsules. Looks like Faster Powders than "2400" though.

I use the ones in 357Mag with a very old sack of #7 shot(not 7 1/2) and they are some excellent Snake Loads. I use either WW-231 or HP-38 Powder and Standard Pistol Primers.

I want mine to spread, but if you want them to perform like Glasers, you might be able to mix the shot with some RTV. I've never tried it, so that might be Full-of-Beans. And it would change the Pressure.

Looks like the Epoxy(and RTV) would simply turn the mixture into a Solid Mass. But as I sit here thinking about it, it would have to be a very Short Range proposition due to the "Imbalance" of the Epoxied projectile.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for the reply Hot Core.
These were made to act like the Glasers and get some penetration.
When I was making them up years ago I could get bullets weighing between 60 and 90 or so grains,depending on the shot size and amount of epoxy they were mixed with.
Clocked over 2000-2200 IIRC. They would penetrate drywall and/or jeans type materials and then....!!!!

You should see what they do to a jack.

Somewhere I think I still have some pics of some massive water jug explosions.

These sabots are not just shot capsules. They were made to hold a .357 bullet.

Anyway , thanks again for the info.....back to the laboratory! he-he!

A good number of years ago, the Muzzleloader folks made 45cal Sabots that would take 0.358" Bullets. I'd seriously considered trying some in a 45-70 Marlin just for grins, but never got around to it.

I've not seen the 44cal Sabots, but I believe you.

Best of luck with the project.

Hot Core I just primed about 30 45-70 brass to do that very thing I most likley well be playing with them this weekend.

What type of powder were you thinking of using.

I do not remember. It was a very long time ago when the old "Shooters" Board was still around. It might have been a fellow in Italy that got me interested, but it has been too long to be positive.

As usual though, you really do need to measure CHE & PRE to see what is happening with the Pressure.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

Hot core I fired two rounds this am just to see if they would stablize they both did. 10grs of herco

Then I thought why I have two 357 rifles that well shoot the bullets just fine.

Maybe I'll get around to groups and vel.

Hey P Dog Shooter, Just got an 1894 Marlin 357Mag a couple of weeks ago. Sad to say that I've been too busy to run even a single Bullet through it yet.

Concerning the 45cal Sabots, I'd been thinking more along the line of the 35cal 180gr FP Hot-Cor Speer, 200gr SP Hornady(one of my all time favorites) and the 220gr FP Hot-Cor Speer. The 200gr SP Hornady in particular was where I'd intended to start.

Can't remember doing a "What if ...?" on the Load For A Disk program. Might be able to approach 358Win levels and then again, maybe not.

I've thought some more about the Powders, and I kind of remember that I was pondering Burn Rates similar to H4198, WW-680 and H4227. But, since it would be real easy to get the Pressure way too high for a Marlin, I'll restress the importance of CHE & PRE for keeping an eye on the Pressure.

Best of luck to you.

Hotcore Well I guess it is just one of those projects I just decided to put on the back burner.

I brought my 45-70 a ruger no3 to shoot cast bullets in I guess I have to many others that would do about the same thing as a jacketed 180 or 200 gr in the mid 2000s.

If I want a lever there I'll buy the new 338 Marlin

Fun thinking about it but to many others ideas going.

Ah-ha! Since you are interested in Cast Bullets, if you think you would like to try Paper Patched Bullets, you might try PMing 303Guy. He is currently devoting a good bit of time and effort to them and having good results.

Met a guy at the Range that had a Single Shot Browning (maybe a B78?) that he was shooting Paper patched Bullets in a 45-70. Once he told me the Loads, it sounded like he was nipping on the heels of the 458Win. Sure enough, the Paper Jackets allow excellent Velocity and each shot tends to "Polish" the Bore to a pristine condition.

He had me look in his Barrel and it looked like it had not been shot. He said that once you hit the sweet spot with the correct Burn-Rate Powder using Paper Patched Bullets, that it just burns exceptionally clean. I've never seen a Powder Burner of any sort with that clean of a Barrel - after shooting it.

His small groups with BIG Holes is what got my attemtion as I was changing Targets.

Best of luck with the #3.