Lee Collet type neck sizer (rifle) and crimp (rifle and bottleneck pistol) dies are great once I replace the lock rings. Both benefit from a little polishing on the collet/closer interface to improve smoothness and consistency.

I have had poor results with the other Lee dies, particularly their seating dies.

I prefer Forster Rifle dies, and Hornady pistol dies (Forster does not make handgun dies). I also use Lyman M-type expander dies.

Andy

Not trying to start a fight here, since Iagree the Lee rings are odd. I've seen a few threads on putting o rings under other brands of lock rings to solve runout problems. I don't know if it works or not.

I would seriously consider selling all of my reloading equipment and giving up reloading altogether before I loaded a single round with any Lee Crap.

It's all pure garbage. I hate it. Had a set of dies once.

Never again. Ever.

You guys feel free to use whatever you want/like/desire, whatever.

You will not have to worry about me buying up any of the Lee Crap so you can't find it on the shelves.

quote:

You will not have to worry about me buying up any of the Lee Crap so you can't find it on the shelves.

Thank you for relieving us of that fear!

quote:

You will not have to worry about me buying up any of the Lee Crap so you can't find it on the shelves.

Good! There will be more for those of us that appreciate Richard Lee's genious ideas. AND if it weren't for lee being the low price leader, your uppity forster and other high end crap would be 3X the price! Also there'd be a lot fewer people loading, so the availability of components would be much less.

quote:

if it weren't for lee being the low price leader, your uppity forster and other high end crap would be 3X the price!

"Uppity"?!

A standard FL RCBS rifle die set averages $25.

You call that "Uppity"?

That Is Hilarious!

Thank you for that laugh, I enjoyed that immensely.

Oh, where? Midway has a sale for 30-06 2 die set,$26.99 , normally 30.99

Lee's 3 die set includes the collet neck sizer with a FL sizer for the same price.

Oh, and I want to see a RCBS collet neck sizer. Or from the same company a factory crimp die of any kind. Or a case trimmer for less than 10 bucks. They were the first to offer the auto prime hand held primer seater.

I really don't care if you want to miss out on some of the handiest tools on the market. I shudder to think what those RCBS dies would cost if lee wasn't around for an alternative low-ER price option.

The last time I bought a set of standard RCBS FL dies at Sportsman's Warehouse, they were $25. That wasn't very long ago.

RCBS makes and sells neck sizing dies, both bushing, and non-bushing dies. I have and use both. They don't make or sell a collet type sizing die because the very idea of it is crap, and they know better. It's a cheap method to make a die, and that's what Lee is there for.

Ditto on the crimp die. Lee calls it a "Factory Crimp Die". BFD. They can call it whatever they want. Drink the Koolaide and enjoy.

Ditto on the case trimmer. With the RCBS trimmer, you can literally trim dozens upon dozens of different cartridge casings with their standard packaged trimmer. You lose this one too, as at $10 a piece, you would be way over the price of the RCBS before you equaled it's ability in number of cartridges and calibers.

Look, Seriously, don't get your panties in a wad here. If you like and enjoy Lee equipment, that's fine. Really. I could care less. I know some guys just love their Lee stuff. I have no idea why, but I understand that it happens.

Reloading is a hobby for me. Really one in it's own right, that happens to correspond with being able to shoot and hunt. I enjoy reloading. Life's too short to work with crappy tools.

I could go down to Walmart or Kmart and buy a socket and wrench set for under $50 to work on cars with. It will "work", sure. But the tools will suck. And I will dislike using them.

I still have my first press, an RCBS rock chucker from the early 70's. I have an Ammomaster, and a Dillon 450. I own and use several different brands of dies and tools. RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Wilson, Herter's, CH4D.

There's not one single Lee tool in my reloading shop, and that's the way it's going to stay.

BTW- grizz,

Just wanted to say, I DO like your signature line about "Your faithful dog". My chocolate lab is laying at my feet while I type this.

See, we can agree on SOME THINGS after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
I would seriously consider selling all of my reloading equipment and giving up reloading altogether before I loaded a single round with any Lee Crap.

It's all pure garbage. I hate it. Had a set of dies once.

Never again. Ever.

You guys feel free to use whatever you want/like/desire, whatever.

You will not have to worry about me buying up any of the Lee Crap so you can't find it on the shelves.

You seem a little timid with your post... but we are among friends... don't hold back... tell us what you REALLY think!!

LOL,

I know. I need to make up my mind how I feel about this, and stop sitting on the fence.

quote:

...

Ditto on the crimp die. Lee calls it a "Factory Crimp Die". BFD. They can call it whatever they want. Drink the Koolaide and enjoy.

...

So just wanted to ask...

What is wrong with the "Factory Crimp Die".

I like to crimp in 2 stages and this works as well as Hornady Crimp Dies

I did replace the Lock Rings with Hornady Rings... but I like Hornady Rings better than RCBS rings too

???

T

Having owned most brands of dies over the years, including Redding's best, I've recently been buying Lee dies. I'm really impressed with them. I need several new sets for some gun show purchases, they will be Lees. The collet dies are just the best. I had several sets of RCBS that would size the neck area down .020" under bullet size then the expander would expand it back up to correct size. Way too much brass working for me.
David

quote:

Originally posted by stronics:
Having owned most brands of dies over the years, including Redding's best, I've recently been buying Lee dies. I'm really impressed with them. I need several new sets for some gun show purchases, they will be Lees. The collet dies are just the best. I had several sets of RCBS that would size the neck area down .020" under bullet size then the expander would expand it back up to correct size. Way too much brass working for me.
David

I would contend that any brand of neck sizing die will work the brass more than a collet die. The trick to happiness with LEE dies is, they do require more care with set-up, especially if using their lock rings. But once se-up is complete, they work just as well, or better than their competitors.

If your priority is to screw the die in and re-load... then you won't appreciate Lee's as much. My priority is simplicity combined with function and reasonable price. With that in mind, Lee satisfies my needs.

quote:

Originally posted by temmi:
What is wrong with the "Factory Crimp Die".

There is nothing wrong with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Unlike the other dies out there, you can get a heavy crimp on cases without collapsing the case. Most rifle cartridges and many handgun cartridges don't need much of a crimp but when you need a heavy crimp, the Lee die is the way to go.

I'm pretty much getting away from using Lee Collet Dies. I've had 2 or 3 cartridges now in which personal testing demonstrated that cases neck sized with the Lee COllet Die gave worse accuracy than those sized with traditional neck sizing dies or with full length sizing dies.

Lee full length sizing dies have worked well for me but when I buy new dies it's generally Redding or RCBS.

quote:

What is wrong with the "Factory Crimp Die".

Not needed for ARs or bolts, unless maybe a 458 type. Would you want this> Photos removed, posted below. case head separation has NOTHING to do with how a bullet is crimped. The info was for another post. Photo is to show the case mouth. Anyone with experence knows this. Sorry about the confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:

quote:

What is wrong with the "Factory Crimp Die".

Not needed for ARs or bolts, unless maybe a 458 type. Would you want this>

You obviously don't know how to use the FCD. That is way overboard. It only takes slight crimp pressure to hold the bullet. You should not be indenting the cases or bullets like that. If you are getting case head separations, it is the fault of your sizing die setup, not the FCD.

Regarding the cartridges above, yes, that's what I want. The stuff I crimp is generally in heavy recoiling cartridges where only a good strong crimp will keep the bullets from moving under recoil. Also, the crimp die does leave indentations in non-cannelured bullets if you want a meaningful crimp but, as far as I can tell, it doesn't negatively impact accuracy.

As noted, case head separation has NOTHING to do with how a bullet is crimped. Also, 13 to 15 reloadings until head separation isn't bad case life.

This proofs again that overdoing a good thing is never a success. Use it as the instruction manual tells you to do!

Perhaps a dumb question but if one is shooting a hard kicker that must have a crimp, why not just switch to a bullet with a channelure?? Usually any difference in accuracy will be very small.

Most of the time I would agree but there are times when a bullet without a cannelure shoots quite a bit better than one with one.

All those pictures prove is that there was an idiot pulling the press handle. Nothing survives a fool and those pictures are proof. I suppose if someone posted a picture of a toyota that hit a brick wall at 55 mph it'd be proof that jap cars have weak bumpers? Both the collet die and the factory crimp die are great inventions that no other makers offer, but like most other things they have to be used with a bit of sense to get the desired results.

quote:

All those pictures prove is that there was an idiot pulling the press handle. Nothing survives a fool and those pictures are proof.

Internet photos, not mine. lol. Tell us how you really feel. .

All my metallic reloading gear is Lee.No complaints.

I too love their crimp dies, but other than that .... no thanks.

I have used Lee dies for many years
The only thing I have found so far that I don't like is the FCD for my 44 mag. I use cast boolits and with the FCD it is too tight on the case. It undoes the belling on the mouth, this can shave lead off the boolit. This makes getting a consistant crimp tough.
It also squeezes the boolit down to a smaller diameter and promotes leding and poor accuracy.
I don't use it now, I just seat and crimp with the regular seating/crimp die.
I think the FCD for bottle necked cartridges is very good. The collet dies are good. As far as a floating bullet seater I think his were the first.
I have used most all brands of dies, I like the Redding dies, I don't like the price.
Of all the loading I've done since 1978 the Lee dies are load as accurate as ammo as any.
I do like Lymans M step expander for cast boolits, very nice.
Lee has developed many new things for reloading. Many of his designs have been copied by other brands.
He does use aluminum in some parts, Those parts don't need great strength. How strong does a seating stem need to be.
Slowpoke Slim, I don't think it's right to condem a complete company because you can't get one set of dies to work.

I began reloading in '62, my first die set was RCBS. Have so far reloaded for well over 100 different cartridges and have formed some definite conclusions over the years. Here's one:

When choosing a die set for any new (to me) cartridge, my first (top) choice is Lee and my last (bottom) choice is RCBS.

Reason? Simple, I have gotten more-accurate ammo with fewer die problems from Lee, on the average, over the years.

Sure, my Wilsons, Sinclairs, Vickermans and other 'accuracy' dies will load some mighty accurate ammo but not any more accurate than Lee unless it takes 3X longer.

And IMO their collet dies are the best thing on the market!

My old stockmaking teacher Ed Shulin used to say that a person had to be smarter than the machine in order to operate it properly....
Regards, Joe

Those bullet pictures came from the Great War between Sierra and Lee. Propaganda!