I know the 378 Weatherby case is a 416 Rigby case with a belt added. Is there such a thing as the 375 H&H (or other belted magnum of that family) case made without the belt?
H. C.
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001
There is no such case, but the 8x68S case comes very close. Buy the book "Cartridges of the world" if you are interested in this subject, it has an incredible amount of information, lots of fun for you dollars. Tron
Daniel I don�t know why you say the 9,3x64 is a .375hh without the belt. Have you checked the case diameters? According to available drawings the 9,3x64 has a diameter of 12,8 mm at the base and 12 mm at the shoulder. The .375, and all the belted magnums except the large weatherbys, are 13mm at the base, ahead of the belt. So the Brenneke case is definitely not a belted magnum without the belt. It would not be, or should not be, possible to chamber a belted magnum case, with the belt taken of and reformed, in a 9,3x64 chamber. It would be very dangerous to try and reform a brenneke case for a belted magnum chamber. I also checked the drawings for the 8x68S and this case is larger at the base, 13,3mm, than a belted magnum. So it seems that there is no case that equals a belted magnum without the belt, though I have not checked dimensions on the old .300/.358 Newton magnums. Tron
I've often wondered this myself -- why nobody every made a line of 2.5" wildcats with the belt turned off and the base turned down to match. None of the win mags need the belt like the original H&H's did, as all have fairly straight case walls and decent shoulders.
Todd
Posts: 1248 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 14 April 2001
TRB The 9.3x64 case has a slightly rebated rim. The actual size of the base is the same as the H&H cases.As a matter of fact I use 458 win to make 9.3x64 cases. It is a simple matter to remove the belt,rebate the rim and then recut the extractor groove. I use a forming die that reduces the case from 45 to 41 cal and then it is once through the FL 9.3x64 size die,load and shoot.
Snowman According to the "official" drawings the 9,3 base itself, ahead of the rim, is 12,8mm. Maybe you have a generous chamber in yours? Besides, belted magnum cases are notoriously under-dimensioned in my experience. But in theory at least what you do should not work. Tron
I am certainly not the first to do this. RCBS sells the forming dies to convert 338 or 458 to 9.3x64. There is also a company in the US that markets brass for the 9.3x64 made from 458 brass.
quote:Originally posted by Hot Core: Hey HenryC, Is there a particular reason you want a 375H&H case "without" a Belt?
Nope. I was just wondering silently as Todd G was wondering aloud why one doesn't hear about wildcats based on belt-turned-off H&H cases. It's so common to headspace off the shoulder, belt or no belt. Belts are if anything unfashionable lately, what with people complaining they don't help feeding, and that thunderous "click" as the cases slide over one another in the magazine.
H. C.
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001
It is possible to make 9.3X64 brass from the H&H belted magnum cases,remove the belt,then turn or swage the head to.504,then form and trim to 2.52.Using .458 Wim.mag. brass is probably the easiest belted brass to convert.BTW it is possible to make 9.3X64R brass from .45 Basic or Sharps 2.6 brass or you could turn the rim off and cut the extractor groove for thr 9.3X64.
The base of the 9.3X64 chamber measures .5082 while the base of the H&H belted magnums chambers run about .514.
quote:Originally posted by HenryC470: [QUOTE]...Belts are if anything unfashionable lately, what with people complaining they don't help feeding, and that thunderous "click" as the cases slide over one another in the magazine.
Hey HenryC, I always try to ask what problem a person has had with a "Belt" on a case, since I've NEVER seen, experienced or heard of a legitimate problem with one.
I agree they don't "help" feeding and hasten to add they sure don't "hurt" feeding either.
But, I'll quickly admit you have provided only the second(supposedly) legitimate reason I've heard as anyone having a "problem" with them - that thunderous "click" you mention. I always wear ear plugs at the Range because of that.
The first(supposedly) legitimate problem was mentioned over on HuntAmerica a year or so ago by the alleged Gun Smith jbelk when he said, "I've always had problems cutting the chamber for a Belted cartidge." Of course, anyone with any machining experience quickly realizes this is in the exact same class as the "thunderous click" and is in reality an alleged Gun Smith problem.
[ 01-12-2003, 03:20: Message edited by: Hot Core ]
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Cutting a belted magnum chamber is a problem? I use a chamber reamer and have not had that problem. I guess you have to change your dremel bit more often. Just spoofing Jbelk, no disrespect intended. Just an opportunity to jab a little and I couldn't pass it up. I sure would like to eliminate the belt on all but the 300 and 375 H&H cases. All modern cases should have been changed years ago but it always had the stigma of power if it had a belt. Gun kranks are realizing the belt is not needed and most with some moxy are head spacing off the shoulder when resizing.
there was a benchrest shooter I read about a while back who was using a 6.5 Rem Mag with the belt turned off. Loaded in a long throated single shot, it turned in some great velocities (and groups). - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
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