Do you guys ever find that alot of folks tend to think that they should buy a longer barreled rifle because it will be "Faster."

It seems that many believe that just because a barrel is longer it will shoot faster than a different barrel of a shorter length when in reality that's far from the truth.

Yes, a 26" barrel will be faster at 26" than if you cut the exact barrel off to 24". However that 26" barrel may be the same speed as the next guy’s 22" barrel chambered for the same cartridge and firing the exact same load.

I've seen quite a few shorter barrels (say 24") shoot faster than longer barrels chambered in the same cart with the same loads from the same lots...

My theory is that this is solely dependant on the internal dimensions of each barrel.

This discussion also brings us to the fact that pressures vary in all barrels. I feel that in a "tight" tube or "fast" (whichever you prefer) the max pressure limitations will be reached much sooner with a given load. Then, you have to think about how much pressure a “loose or slow†barrel can take before we get into dangerous territory. This line of thinking could make one think that he should be able to go over "book max" loads in certain tubes and not reach “book max†loads with other tubes which I feel is true to a certain extent. The real problem lies in the fact that we can't personally make accurate observations on pressure limitations with our limited equipment we possess as reloaders SO, we rely on tale tale signs such as flattened primers, sticky bolts, case head expansion, case life, etc.,etc.

Just babbling, Any thoughts or theories on the matter?

Ya'll have a good one,

Reloader

I have one of those fast short barrels but my thoughts are to make the barrel length the way thay you like it for comfort first then what the speed happens to be is what you have. I persoanlly seriously dislike long barrels. Maybe because I am not a tall guy or something but I just don't like them. If feel that if I don't like it then it will not shoot good. Just my thoughts. So for me it will be a short barrel no matter what the speed.

we have far far too many barel length threads.....

Barrel length is a personal thing.....for personal tastes and balance of the rifle.....it should never be determined for velocity reasons.......

some like shot and some like long.....screw the velocity...it's really not relevant.

I'll jump in here and disagree with Vapodog. When shooting long range competition rifles, longer barrels are desireable for the velocity gain. If you are shooting a Palma rifle and you need every bit of velocity that you can get from the .308, a 30" barrel is a definite advantage over a 26".

Here is some interesting reading about barrel length.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
Do you guys ever find that alot of folks tend to think that they should buy a longer barreled rifle because it will be "Faster."

Hey Reloader, Yes.

quote:

It seems that many believe that just because a barrel is longer it will shoot faster than a different barrel of a shorter length when in reality that's far from the truth. ... My theory is that this is solely dependant on the internal dimensions of each barrel.

Your theory is in fact - fact.

quote:

... I feel that in a "tight" tube or "fast" (whichever you prefer) the max pressure limitations will be reached much sooner with a given load. Then, you have to think about how much pressure a “loose or slow†barrel can take before we get into dangerous territory.

I'd say this depends on what kind of cartridges the person is using.

If a person is using Factory Ammo, I'd say your definitions are correct - Tight Bore dimensions = a Fast barrel.

If however the person is a Reloader, then the opposite is true - Larger Bore dimensions = a Fast barrel.

An astute Reloader will typically take the Cartride to a SAFE MAX Pressure. With the Larger Bore dimensions, more Powder can(Safely) be used than in a Tight Bore, before a SAFE MAX Pressure is reached. Therefore the Reloader ends up with a higher Velocity than he will with the same equilavent Pressure in a Tight Bore.

quote:

This line of thinking could make one think that he should be able to go over "book max" loads in certain tubes and not reach “book max†loads with other tubes which I feel is true to a certain extent.

It is Absolutely, Positively, 100%, TRUE! (Time for the drum roll!!!) That is "WHY" that people who say the way to use a Chronograph is by simply dumping in Powder until you hit an "arbitrary velocity" listed in a Manual are - (Taa-Daaa) Full-of-Beans.

quote:

The real problem lies in the fact that we can't personally make accurate observations on pressure limitations with our limited equipment we possess as reloaders SO, we rely on tale tale signs such as flattened primers, sticky bolts, case head expansion, case life, etc.,etc. Just babbling, Any thoughts or theories on the matter? ...

You left out the most important and accurate one of all - PRE.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills - to all you folks, even the chronograph (ab)users.

quote:

If however the person is a Reloader, then the opposite is true - Larger Bore dimensions = a Fast barrel.

HC,

I may be wrong, but I've always considered oversized internal dimensions of the tube to give slower velocity due to the lower resistance on the projectile and not allowing max pressure to be reached in a given tube length. Considering comparing equal charges in two different tubes of slightly differing diameters of course.(IE: loading the same charge for each test barrel.)

Do you agree?

Reloader

Always fun, but I'll have to disagree. Your example of somebody shooting a 24" tube being faster than the guy next to him shooting a 26" tube. OK, I can see this happening, but,,,,,,if the guy with the 24" barrel had that exact barrel cut at 26" instead of 24" to begin with it would be even faster than it is now! If you take any 26" barrel and cut 2" off of it and shoot the same loads you were shooting before you cut the barrel it will shoot slower than it did before you cut it. So yes, barrel length does matter in terms of speed.

Lots of other things to consider though. Speed takes a back seat to weight and balance.

Terry

Terry, You must have missed this blurb from the original post:

quote:

Yes, a 26" barrel will be faster at 26" than if you cut the exact barrel off to 24".

No-one said a given barrel wasn't faster at longer lengths.

Reloader

OOOOps, sorry.

Wanna fight about it anyway?

Terry

quote:

Wanna fight about it anyway?

Nah, We should just save it. I'm sure someone will open up another thread on match kings or Nbts before too long

Have a Good One

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by eddieharren:
I'll jump in here and disagree with Vapodog. When shooting long range competition rifles, longer barrels are desireable for the velocity gain. If you are shooting a Palma rifle and you need every bit of velocity that you can get from the .308, a 30" barrel is a definite advantage over a 26".

Yes.....I agree with this.....and while it wasn't stated I will now state that my post was in regard to hunting rifles.

I do have a couple rifles with long tubes for varminting and bench only guns as they're so heavy that carrying them is a task.

Hey....this is what forums are all about!

OK I'll make a statement - If i shoot the varmit with a 24 or 26 inch barrel. The bullet will get to the varmit at least 2" quicker with a 26"

I helped a buddy of mine chronograph some 22-250 loads in two of his rifles. One was a Ruger with a 26" barrel and the other was a Winchester with a 22" barrel. Using the same reloads in both rifles, the Winchester with the shorter barrel was slightly faster. It seemed that the chamber on the Winchester was enough tighter that we could notice that difference in the loading of the shells. JMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
...I may be wrong, but I've always considered oversized internal dimensions of the tube to give slower velocity due to the lower resistance on the projectile and not allowing max pressure to be reached in a given tube length. Considering comparing equal charges in two different tubes of slightly differing diameters of course.(IE: loading the same charge for each test barrel.)

Do you agree?

Hey Reloader, Yes, I agree with that situation. In that example you are talking about different Pressure Levels with the same amount of Powder. (Same as my example using Factory Ammo - we are in agreement now.) Therefore the one which has less "Overall Pressure under the Curve"(dv/dt) will also have a lower(aka Slower) Velocity.

However, if you (or I) had those two Rifles, we would Develop the Load for the SAFE MAX Pressure Level that gives the best accuracy. And the one with the Larger Bore can be SAFELY used with a bit more Powder, therefore it will be a "Faster Barrel".
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I currently have a "Slow Barrel" rifle. It reaches a SAFE MAX Pressure before I can reach the Velocities I used to achieve in the same exact Caliber that had a "Larger Bore Dimension". I can't put in as much Powder, the Bore is "Smaller", and it is a Slow by comparison to the previous Rifle.

I understand the Verbal confusion. It has been misrepresented for many years by Gun Writers who simply got it WRONG.

Best of luck to you.

My head is a little thick. What did you say?

The most important thing about barrel length is that a 24 in. barrel hangs better offhand for me and a 26 incher is always banging into everything. That extra two inches seems like a foot. I prefer a 23-24 in. barrel, but have some 22 in. barreled rifles that I really like, in smaller calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwight:
My head is a little thick. What did you say?

Hey Dwight, I've not noticed that condition in you. Probably a good thing to have when "ducking" from the Hurricanes.

For a Reloader:
1. A "Tight Bore" will reach a SAFE MAX Pressure quicker than a "Loose Bore" when adding Powder.
2. Less Powder(when reaching the same Pressure) for the entire Chamber/Bore volume normally means a slower Velocity.
3. Therefore, a Tight Bore, using less Powder(in a typical rifle) will result in it being a Slow Barrel(less Velocity).

The opposite would be true for a person only using Factory Ammo.

PS I typed r e a l - s l o w to see if that would allow the info to "penetrate".
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I sure envy all those Wild Hogs you Floridians have running all over the place. Must be nice to just see one running wild and be able to pull over, ease the rifle out and blast it into sausage, or onto the grill.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I think there is a good reason to have longer barrels. It has nothing to do with velocity though.

As a more mature shooter I find an iron sighted rifle easier to find the front sight with a very long tube. In fact I am considering adding a bloop tube to my match rifle to add additional sight radius. These old more mature eyes have shrunk my arms a good deal.

muck

My worst hurricane experience was living in Charlotte when HUGO hit. Do you remember that one? The tornado a week ago missed me by 400 yds.

Hey Dwight, Yes indeed. Decided right then the next house I actually build would be a form of a modified Revetment.

Glad to hear the Tornado missed you. I have an old MARINE buddy who lives in Ft. Mc Coy which shouldn't be too far from you.

Best of luck with your alls weather.