Has anybody tried this stuff yet? I've often wondered how ceramic media works. Was thinking of giving some a whirl.

Anyone used any ceramic media? What did you think?

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?...amic+media&noImage=0

A lil' high priced,ain't it?

It does seem pricey. Has anyone checked out ceramic media for machine shops? They've been using this stuff for years to de-burr and polish machined parts.

glockmeister, it is a little high, but I fiugred if some folks told me it worked well, I would give it a spin (or a tumble) since I figure you don't have to throw it out and replace like the typical media I use--walnut & corncob.

Masterifleman, that's an interesting thought, I think I'll search around on the web for some 'machine shop' ceramic media.

Thanks guys--Don

The stuff we use at the shop is too big, not sure if anything much smaller is available. The smallest we have is about the size of a standard pencil eraser, dia. and length. Ours runs wet, small jet of water sprayed into the media and a drain to the sewer system continuously, with a small squirt of dish soap to keep the residue down. Very aggresive, 30 minutes will take edges off aircraft grade aluminum, and give sort of a matte finish.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
glockmeister, it is a little high, but I fiugred if some folks told me it worked well, I would give it a spin (or a tumble) since I figure you don't have to throw it out and replace like the typical media I use--walnut & corncob.

Yeah,if you can reuse it for alot longer period without replacing and it works as good,you'd prolly come out better in the long run.

The operative words are:

"For use in case tumblers designed for use with liquid media agents only".

Ceramic media works great but there are some rules that need to be followed. First, you MUST use a solution to flush away the contaminants. If you don't, not only does the ceramic quit working efficiently (like a whet stone filled with crud) but the contaminents are now imbedded in the media and those same contaminants will now be transferred from the media to the next thing you tumble. It is also best to have a flow through solution, i.e., clean solution going in the top while dirty solution is drained off the bottom. Above all else, keep the media clean. If you do, there is nothing else that compares to it's cleaning ability and it WILL last forever.

Second; not only does the tumbler need to be able to handle wet tumbling, it also needs the power to move the increased mass. Your standard, run of the mill, small tumbler does not have the power to tumble (speaking vibratory) the heavier mass of cases (or whatever) AND the media itself. Even the larger hobby tumblers on the market are no better than marginal on power to tumble ceramic. The tumblers that do tumble ceramic well are definitely outside the financial range of a hobbiest. Consequently, the only inexpensive equipment that will tumble ceramic well are rotary tumblers (think rock polishing). They can handle about any reasonable mass but they are much slower than a properly powered vibratory tumbler.

For a vibratory tumbler to work well, it has to continuously roll the media and parts, just as you see happening with walnut or corn cob. Like I said, the problem is that there aren't any vibratory tumblers that will do that. They don't have the power to roll that much weight. Some folks just put the media, parts, and solution in the tumbler and turn it on and just give it what I call a "buzz job". The tumbler just sets there and buzzes and never rolls the media. OK by me but that is not really tumbling, plus it will take a much longer amount of time to work; maybe five times longer and you can't keep a proper solution flow that way.

Ceramic comes in all shapes, sizes, and grits. The Cabelas stuff seems like a very good size for the intended purpose. Small enough to get into everywhere but, most of all, to get back out again. It is white which indicates the least agressive grit, more of a polisher than a cutter and that should also be fine for the purpose. Most shops don't ever see the white grit as time is of the essence, so they use the more aggressive grey media, which is more of a cutter than a polisher.

BTW, if you buy the largest and coarsest walnut media, it can be washed many times. I wash it on a piece of stainless screen (MSC) and the dirt goes through and then you let the walnut air dry. Been using the same batch commercially for 8 years. Washed it probably 50 times. The older it gets and the more times I wash it, the better it gets (less dust).

quote:

Originally posted by NFMike:
The operative words are:



Ceramic media works great but there are some rules that need to be followed.
BTW, if you buy the largest and coarsest walnut media, it can be washed many times. I wash it on a piece of stainless screen (MSC) and the dirt goes through and then you let the walnut air dry. Been using the same batch commercially for 8 years. Washed it probably 50 times. The older it gets and the more times I wash it, the better it gets (less dust).

Well delineated! Instead of washing the walnut I use a healthy amount of orange 409 while tumbeling along with inchlies of napkin or paper tool. I also thourouly clean sive, bucket and tumbeler after every use. roger

NF Mike, that's great intel, thanks. If I read that right, the Cabela's media wouldn't work well in my vibratory either?

I have a Thumblers tumbler, and it didn't work worth a crap, don't know if I didn't get it set up right or what, but I've been planning to send it back...,

Bartsche, I use the orange 409 myself, to help 'brighten' my brass, are you saying that you put in some pieces of paper towel to help clean the media while tumbling--or is that after?

I hadn't ever thought about washing my media, and it is a real good point NF Mike, that if you don't clean the ceramic stuff, it will just pass the 'contaminents' along to the next brass. I just throw out my corn or walnut once I've tumbled a few batches, and I judge it dirty.

Thanks Guys--Don

Fish

Whether a vibratory tumbler will or won't tumble ceramic media properly (other than they need to be designed for wet service) has to do with the bowl capacity and the horse power.

Obviously, the larger the bowl, the greater the capacity and the more cases (or what ever) you can tumble, IF it has the power to tumble it. Vibratory bowls are designed to operate best when they are filled to 50 to 60% volume capacity (media and parts). Loaded to less than that capacity and the media will not crawl the outside bowl wall and fall back to the center. That crawling of the wall is what creates the rolling tumble action. If you do not see that action, then you are not tumbling. And if you load the bowl to significantly less than the optimum bowl level, there will be no such action.

In most (hobbyiest) cases, a vibratory tumbler is only rated in volume capacity. With the smaller units, rarely will a manufacturer even give the max weight capacity of the tumbler or HP of it's motor. Thumler is one that does give weight capacities. You can see those on their website. I'm not in any way bad mouthing Thumler. I believe that they are the Cadillac of the dry case tumblers. I am only using them for comparison because they are one of the few that do give all the pertinent numbers. Even though they are one of, if not the, best of the dry tumblers, even they do not have the power (IMO) to properly tumble wet ceramic media (I have one and I tried). There biggest model in the UV45 which has a volume capacity of 4.5 gallons. That means that the optimum volume level in the bowl would be ~2.3 gallons, to initiate good rolling action. You can also see that they rate the max weight capacity (media and parts) at 57 pounds. It has that rating because that is the max weight that the motor has the power to vibrate. Whether any vibratory tumbler can handle ceramic media is whether the motor is large enough to handle the weight of the media when loaded to the optimum bowl level. In this instance, the weight of the media alone would exceed the total weight capactiy of the machine, when filled to the correct level for proper tumbling. In comparison the UV45 tumbler has a motor rated at 1/20HP. My commercial grade tumbler, which I use, is only slightly larger in volume (5 gallon) but has a 1/2HP motor. So the bowl sizes are close but a commercial grade has 10 times the horsepower. The commercial grade tumbler I use has no problem with 120+ pounds of media and parts. Problem is that they are expensive. A good one will exceed $1,000 and that takes it out of the realm of the hobbyiest.

So if you plan to use the ceramic in a vibratoy tumbler, it is best to contact the manufacturer and see if they are rated for the weight of the media and parts. Their weight rating will give a hint to the HP even if they don't specifically state it because the weight rating is linked to the HP and the capacity of the springs that the bowl sets on. If you exceed the weight rating, the motor will not vibrate it and the springs will not support it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Bartsche, I use the orange 409 myself, to help 'brighten' my brass, are you saying that you put in some pieces of paper towel to help clean the media while tumbling--or is that after?

At least one whole cut up napkin or paper towel while tumbling. They always come out real gray or is it grey? In an effort to get a higher polish I use about two table spoons of Bon- Ami with the the lid off, outside. I haven't changed walnut shells in years. roger

NF Mike, great info, thank you. I'm what I guess you would call an obsessed hobbiest, but I don't know if I really want to use ceramic media enough to invest $1k in a tumbler..... I will check in to what my current tumbler will handle.

Bartsche--I'll give the napkin/paper towel thing a try. I've been changing media often enough that I would like to minimize it.

Take Care--Don

Any of the thumlers tumblers will work fine with ceramic media, the rotary ones I mean, not sure about vibratory. I have ceramic media I would sell, brand new unused. I ordered more then I need and will sell it at cost plus shipping by the lb. All you need for a smaller tumbler like the 3lb thumlers is about a pound and it will last forever, no reason to buy 10 lbs unless you really need it for a bigger tumbler.

BTW the cabelas media is 3.2 mm x 8.7 mm which is too large for all but the largest brass, it will polish the outside but wont do much for primer pockets or the insides. The stuff I have is 1.7 mm x 5 mm angle cut cylinders.

I use used dryer sheets instead of paper towels or napkins .

They seem to help with the dust and get really nasty . They take alot of crap with them in a single tumbling.


Travis F.

quote:

Originally posted by TBF:
I use used dryer sheets instead of paper towels or napkins .

They seem to help with the dust and get really nasty . They take alot of crap with them in a single tumbling.



Travis F.

I learned this trick from the guys in the reloading forum on www.glocktalk.com .They also work for powder sticking to the neck due to static electricity.I always keep a box handy now.

stinkers, I appreciate the info on the Cabela's stuff, that was actually what I wondered about, was it's size. I'm going to figure out if my tumbler can handle it, per NF Mikes helpful info, and if I think it can I may PM you about buying a pound or two of your media.

Will try the dryer sheets this weekend......

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TBF:
I use used dryer sheets instead of paper towels or napkins .

They seem to help with the dust and get really nasty . They take alot of crap with them in a single tumbling.

That makes a lot of sense. I will try that. roger

I tried the drier sheets and thank you. The paper towels and napkins are really good. The drier sheets are so much better. It takes a lot of the dust or whatever off the walnut. You have a convert ole buddy. roger