Is there a taper crimp die for a 7.62 or will roll crimping suffice? Smoker1

Taper crimps are used either on cartridges that headspace (stop going into the chamber too deeply) on the case mouth, or on revolver loads with bullets that don't have a canelure (crimping groove). The 7.62x25 headspaces on the case shoulder, and most bullets for it have a canelure, so I don't think there are any taper crimp dies for it. Roll crimp is most common. Lee does offer a Factory Crimp Die for it, which is a collet type crimp die that works really well.

Andy

Thanks BigJakeJ1s, I have A set of rcbs dies for the 7.62 and will use the roll crimp feature now that I know about locating on the case shoulder. appreciate your responce. Smoker1

quote:

Originally posted by BigJakeJ1s:
Lee does offer a Factory Crimp Die for it, which is a collet type crimp die that works really well.

Andy

I sent a 7.62x25mm case and seate bullet to Lee 5 years ago to try to get them to make a custom rifle factory crimp die based on the slit collet.

They sent the case and my money back, saying it was too short.

The Lee Pistol Factory crimp is a different principal than the rifle factory crimp.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1135...alog/dies-crimp.html

Looking at the spare parts, I can see that they are doing the Pistol type crimp die design.

I am sure it works great, as the C96, CZ52, and Tokarev cannot produce much recoil with the 7.62x25mm cartridge.

The Lee Pistol Factory crimp in 45 acp cannot secure 300 gr cast bullets in a revolver in heavy recoil.

The Lee FCDs for bottleneck pistol cartridges do use a collet (unlike the straight wall pistol FCDs), but it is slightly different design than the rifle FCDs. If you look at the service parts breakdown (one of the features I love about their site!) for the bottleneck pistol FCDs, they are more closely related to the neck-sizing collet rifle dies than to the rifle FCDs.

I agree with you about the straight wall pistol FCDs, I like the crimp produced by my Hornady seat/crimp die better than that by the FCD (for 45 colt), and it is one less step in reloading.

Andy

I had an idea to take a .308 factory crimp, take a .308 case and trim off half the neck, and then crimp Tokarev ammo upside down in the press.

It did not work, becuase the .308 necks are thicker than the Tokarev necks.

The dies I have are used RCBS brand. I can only assume the seating die has the roll crimp feature??? The CZ52 is a fun pistol to shoot except for the brass going 30+ feet. I started a load last year using 7.3 grains of Power Pistol and a 85 grain bullet. Most cases dropped less than 8' which was great. Never did anything with accuracy yet...thus the crimp issue. Smoker1

I have tried work ups with a number of powders, AA#9, H110, LIL'GUN, N105, N110, XMP5744, and LONGSHOT.

Power Pistol is the winner.

To overload the cartridge in a Tokarev with S&B brass I have shot:

a) 11.5 gr Power Pistol, 86 gr

b) 10 gr Power Pistol, 110 gr


Starline brass and CZ52 are not strong like Tokarevs and S&B brass, ask me how I know.

quote:

Starline brass and CZ52 are not strong like Tokarevs and S&B brass, ask me how I know.

OK, how do you know?? I don't try to push the limits on anything I load. Never blew anything up but had very good friends that did and received some bad injury's. I stay within the limits and if the piece I'm working on doesen't have enough poop I'll go to a caliber that saitisfy's my needs. Do you shoot IPSIC where you have to meet a power factor? smoker1

The 7.62x25mm can be 1.3 to 1.4" long, and so the pistols can be converted to 9x23mm if there is a 9x19mm barrel.

The 9x23mm in a Tokarev will make major for breakfast.

9x23 is a very immpressive cartridge. Years ago I bought a mod.80 38 Super and they called it the 38 Super Enhanced. With it came a 9X23 barrel/guide rod/double springs. Well of course I had to try it and the difference between the Super and the 9X23 was....really a handfull. You mentioned OAl of 1.3 to 1.4. I found that out when I tried to do a roll crimp my setup piece being Starline brass, which was 1.355. When I went to seat and crimp with a S&B brass it was like I ran in to a wall. Didn't force it but began looking for the reason. The S&B brass was 1.385 and that was enough difference. I'm just now trimming all the S&B to 1.355 to 1.360 as I have far more Starline. I'll keep you posted as I'll try to get out today to test it out. Good shooting, smoker1

tnekkcc, just noticed that you mentioned XMP5744, is this the same powder as XMR5744? smoker1

On my shelf is XMP5744, on Accurate Arms web site they have AA5744, and a Google search shows there is talk of XMR5744.

AA does not make powder, but distributes what ever they can have made or can find. They seem to walk the iine between canister and bulk powder. Maybe the different pre fixes seaparate sources or batches of 5744.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/5744.htm

Dug out the bottle of XMP5744 and on the label it say's 24.0 w/240JHC .44 Mag. @ 1470. Checked my manual ( Sierra ), it looks like a perfect match with H110 or 296 as far as grain weight and velocity. I'm going to use this stuff in a smokeless savage 50 cal. M.L'r @ 44.5 grains w/saboted 300 grain JFP bullet. Just wish I could see some published data on XMP I would feel more comfortable...kow what I mean? smoker1

I agree the 44 mag 240 gr loads and velocity are a match.

H110 is a ball powder and does not do well with reduced loads and needs a HEAVY crimp.
5744 is extruded and is intended for reduced loads.

H110 smells better

XMR(rifle)5774 and XMP(pistol)5744 are the one and the same, now called simply "5744" by Accurate Arms.
Just got this from A guy I have a lot of trust in. Guess we're OK, smoker1