My wife and I went to the range yesterday to try the 140gr Barnes xlcs in her rifle, a 6.5x55 and the 180gr xlc bts in my 300H&H.

Her rifle is built on a left handed Winchester action with a 22' Loather-Walter barrel, McMillan featherweight stock and wears a 2.5-10x40 Bushnell scope in Warne rings. It was built last year and has had maybe 100 rounds through it, mostly 120gr Pro-Hunters, 125gr Partitions and 129gr SSTs. Before we went to the range we gave it a good cleaning to remove any copper build-up.

Soooo heres the problem.
I had talked to Barnes about using their xlc bullets, they said start 2 grains below max and work up using the No. 2 manual I have, we started 3grs below max. He said we would probally reach "our" max load 2 to 3grs above the book max.

Upon arriving at the range she fired 2 fouling shots with some 125gr Noslers, 43.5grs of IMR 4350, which I wish we had chronographed but didn't. They were on the target, about 2" high a little to the left and about a 3/4" group. Again as stated we started 3grs below max, which is 41grs of IMR 4350. After letting the barrel cool she shot 3 of the 140gr xlcs, 41grs imr 4350, the velocity was 2455,2504,2471. Two shots were 12"+ to the right of poa, the third shot was 6"+ left of the poa and ALL three had keyholed.

Now I'm scratching my head. In 15 years of hunting/shooting and 8 or so years of handloading I've never had this happen. For some reason the bullets are not stabilizing.

So thinking we were not getting enough velocity we moved up to 42grs of IMR 4350. After letting the barrel cool, she shot 4 rounds of this load.
Heres the velocity, 2526,2535,2747,2773 and again all 4 keyholed. I'm still scratching my head, but thats enough of that. We didn't shoot anymore of the xlcs.

After letting the barrel cool again she shot 2 129gr SSTs, 42grs of IMR 4350. They grouped well with a velocity of 2681 and 2689. 2 was all we had with us. We came home and ordered some 140gr Noslers.

Whats up with the Barnes XLC? Why are they keyholeing? Can we do anything to make these shoot in her rifle?

On the other hand. The 180gr XLCs work well in my 300 H&H. 69grs of Reloader 19 averaged 3010fps and grouped pretty good, about 1-1/4". Thats something I can work with.

What is the twist in your barrel? How long are those 140 solid copper bullets?

I measure the twist in a barrel by pulling a tight patch thru and marking the cleaning rod. When it makes one revolution measure the distance that it took.

[ 04-06-2003, 21:50: Message edited by: Savage99 ]

Your twist is too slow...

Either the twist is too slow or the xlc bullets are too long for their weight (which they are for the weight when compared to conventional bullets).

Hey D Humbarger, do you happen to remember what the rate of twist is for that barrel?

Mark,

What twist did you find when you measured it?

Don't go by what it says on the barrel or what somebody says it is.

1 in 9

This is the reply we got from Barnes.

Mark

Thanks for the Email. I have done a calculation from Sir George Greenhill. According to this calculation You need to have a barrel twist rate of at least 1 in 7.68 to get those bullets to stabilize. Velocity also plays a role in stabilizing. With the proper twist rate, regular velocities will stabilize those bullets. We are testing them in a 260 Rem with a 1 in 9 twist rate at velocities between 2250fps and 2700 with good results.You may not be able to push them fast enough with the twist rate in your gun. I would suggest steping down to the 120 or 130gr X Bullet. First, you need to find out what twist rate you have in your barrel. Our bullets, being made of solid copper are much longer than a bullet of the same weight made of lead. Therefore, with bullets of the same weight, the Barnes Bullet sometimes will not stabilize. Enjoy!!

You know, I'm not sure what the hell there is to "Enjoy" in buying a $25 box of bullets that keyhole out of her rifle.

Mark,

I have some experience with this in my 6.5-'06 which has a Shilen 9" twist barrel. It will stabilize some conventional bullets up to 160 grains. It will shoot lead cored spitzers up to 140 grains, but keyholes the 165 Barnes Old Style Conventional Semi-spitzer. The Hornady 160 grain round nose works.

I understand the European standard for the 6.5mm is a 7.87" twist (200 mm), and that is what was used for the long military bullets. The American standard is 9".

As noted the Barnes bullet is long for its weight, as are all the monolithic bullets (copper or non-lead alloy). That is why your bullets are keyholing. In addition the Greenhill Formula was derived for lead bullets with gilding metal jackets.

I bought some Swift 120 grain A-Frame bullets to test in my rifle, I think they will turn it into a "better .270".

jim

my 300 win, a rechambered 1903 (yes 1903) high sn, shoots 180 X's just dandy, right over 3000s, in 5/8" groups. I wont post the load, but it's 70 something of rl22, and it's just great..

BUT, i haven't tried the xlc's... I got burnt on moly on 2 rifles... sure the pressure went down... but so did the vel AND accuracy.... so I spent some time cleaning them, and have decided it aint worth the "potential" 50fps...

try the 180x bullets....

jeffe

jeffeosso

The 180gr XLCs worked fine in my 300H&H. 69grs of Reloader 19 = 3010fps.

Its the 140gr XLCs in her 6.5x55 were having problems with.

Guess what I found last night. A box of .264 X bullets, 130gr. I guess we'll give them a try.

Hey Mark, you might give the 120 XLCs a try as well. My Sako likes both them and the 140s, but I imagine it has the slower European spec twist. I've never measured it though. I wanted to try the 120s for a little extra speed, but I think I might actually have them moving a little TOO fast. The bullet I shot my deer with last year punched right through him without so much as a "by your leave," meaning it totally failed to expand. I don't seem to have that problem with the 140s. So now I've decided to just shoot the 140s at everything and call it good.

In addition, Barnes has XLC specific loading data that seems to run a few grains above the other manuals. I'd be happy to share my loads and experience with your. Email (in profile) me and we'll talk.

I emailed Barnes with the twist. Which the gunsmith said is 1:9 Heres their reply.

Dear Sir

Thanks for the reply. This appears to be a mystery. Without having the gun, it will be near impossible for us to tell you what is wrong. We know that it doesn't like long heavy bullets. Lets focus on what is working. 129 gr bullets seem to work fine. You should be fine with either the 120 or 130gr X Bullet. If neither of these work, I would get a little worried and have you send the gun in to see what we can do to help you. Give that a try and let me know, so that I can be of assistance. Enjoy!!

May the wind be in your face, be sure not to pull it, may you have one shot kills, and always use Barnes Bullets.
Ty Herring
Barnes Bullets
Customer Service Rep
Tyh@barnesbullets.com
P.O Box 215
American Fork
Ut. 84003
Tel 801.756.4222
1.800.574.9200
Fax 801.756.2465
www.barnesbullets.com

Mark,

Instead of sending your rifle to Barnes (at your expense), ask them to swap your 140gr. XLCs for some 120gr. XLCs.

I've never had luck getting 'X' bullets to shoot well in my guns. I have some XLCs and will try them in my .470 Capstick, but that is the last 'X' bullet I'll try!

George