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If I can easily chamber all of my once-fired brass before any sizing whatsoever, does this mean... 1) There is so little headspace in my rifle that the brass simply had no room to expand when fireforming? 2) The headspace in my rifle is so sloppy that it can accomodate the case even after expansion and before sizing? Is it normal for once-fired brass to chamber before resizing? In other words, will I normally get a few firings before having to bump the shoulder back with P-FL or neck sizing? | ||
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Were these cases fired in YOUR gun? Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Rechambering a fired case has no meaning for headspace, the fired case simply expands to fit and no more. When pressure falls the case will slightly contract so rechambering that case is going to be easy enough. Headspace, excessive or not, has little meaning to a knowledgeable reloader. He simply sizes his cases to fit back into the chamber correctly and goes safely along. Only the mechanical reloader, one who insists on sizing each time according to the "instructions that came with the die" as the only way to do things will excessively resize and then excessively re-expand the case. Such cases will stretch again each time it's fired so it stretches until it ruptures. By setting the sizer so it barely moves the shoulder, if at all, the skilled reloadeer insures that his cases fit the chamber snuggly and, volia, there is no longer any headspace or significant stretch issue to be concerned with. | |||
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IF you are using a good strong bolt action or single-shot, and your cases DON"T go back into the chamber and let you close the bolt easily, either the firing pressures were too high or something else is wrong! Generally after a number of shots, FL sizing will become necessary. This will vary dependng on how close to your rifle's maximum your loads are coming! But this should NOT be the case after every shot. If your fire-formed cases rechamber easily before any sizing, be happy! This will make your job easier. "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Okay guys, thanks. All this makes perfect sense. Yes, they were fired in my gun, but with all the talk of P-FL adjustments for headspace, I got to thinking that if mine chambered after firing without me having to bump the shoulder back, then something was wrong! I've been my own worst nightmare while learning this reloading craft...every time I read about something new, I somehow think that my gear or my rifle is jacked up. Deep breath...exhale... | |||
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Sometimes PFL dose not work. I have had experience with two Ruger No1s The 25-06 and the 22-250 would chamber fired cases just fine, but would not accept PFL cases. Even with the size die screwed down ro touch the shellholder they would not chamber. The die had to be screwed 1/4 turn more before they would chamber. The chambers were tight on headspace but fat in diameter. Soon as the size die squeezed the body down the shoulder moved foreward,making them too long. Lyle "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. I would remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Barry M Goldwater. | |||
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Typical behavior of a fired case. This is why "99% FL" resizing works best. You have to make sure the shoulder is not allowed to move forward. | |||
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Hey H H When you get the chance get some gauge to show you what is going on. I recommend the Hornady Headspace Gage You put them on your calipers and zero them  then take a measurement  that is more or less on the datum line of the case shoulder  You keep track of the measurements from new cases through the firing where the case gets hard to chamber and develops the "crush fit". The thing about brass is that it expands and then "springs back". That is what enables you to shoot and then extract is that little bit of clearance you get from the springback. The more you fire, the more the brass gets work hardened and the less it springs back until the case and chamber are very close to the same size and the case gets tight in the chamber. Results vary depending upon your chamber, the brass and the load but here are some measurements that I have found to be typical in my chambers: Steyr 30-06 Nosler brass 200 gr Accubond 60 gr RL22 New brass - 2.040" Once fired - 2.0485" Twice fired - 2.050" 3 times fired - 2.0510" (slight crush fit) 4 times fired - 2.0515" (crush fit) Then it is time to push the shoulder back and you can use your gauge to set the die up so that the shoulder is exactly where you want it, either Full Length Resized with no contact at the shoulder or Partial Full Length Resized with a slight crush fit. Then you can use a Comparator set, modified case and overall length gage to set the seating depth so you can control the bullet jump.  Piece of cake, all it takes is money!  Is that enough "thingy's" for you to get upset about H C?  ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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What do you mean "get upset" Pilgrim? That sure is a herd of Thingys. ----- I've been giving serious thought to becoming a Thingy "supporter"!   | |||
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You didn't do it right IMHO. You've PFLS'ed just when the case just fits in the chamber. Doesn't matter where the die happens to be. Eg with a Hornady die my PFLS is when the die is touching the shell holder. With a Lee FLS die it's well above the shell holder, (which happenes to be a Lyman.) The PFLS position for the case is a very small nip down of a die. I've also had to FLS a case twice, after a 180 deg. turn to get it into a target chamber. The point being the case IS then still PFLS'ed. | |||
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Don't worry, HC.... One of the great pleasures of AR is learning from both you and woods. LOL. flaco | |||
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