Okay, here's what we're trying to do: We seek to discover the most accurate loads in the 30-06 and the .270 Winchester with those of you who use H4350 in the 30-06 with 165 grain bullets, and IMR 4350 in the .270 win with 130 grain bullets.

Folks who use H4350 in the 30-06 with 180 grain bullets can post that data, and folks who use H4831 in the .270 should post that data as well.

We're trying to see if there is a trend, or consensus of what the best powders and charges in the most commonly used hunting loads are.

Thanks for participating, and if you can include group sizes and rifle models with your information, that would help as well.

Dan Newberry
green 788

green 788, you didn't mention the bullet weight in the 270 with H4831 but here is my most accurate load in a 270 Sako 75

150 Nosler Partition
57 gr. H4831
CCI standard primer
Win case

The only work to the case is flash hole uniforming.

It shoots consistent 3/4" five shot groups at 100 yards with many groups in the .5 to .6 range. I only fired 5 shot groups for load development and generally for big game calibers use 3 shot groups to check zero.

H4831SC 270 win
Win brass
Win wlr Primer
130 gr hornady
58 grain of H4831sc
Shoots 0.6 moa/ Browning Abolt

Ar2209 close too imr4350/H4350 270 win
Win Brass
Win wlr Primer
90 grain Sierra HP
58 grains of ar2209
Shoots 0.7 moa Browning Abolt
Couldnt get H4831sc to shoot this good!

[ 07-12-2002, 01:55: Message edited by: milosmate ]

Cartridge:.....270 Winchester
Bullet:........Sierra 140 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail
Bal. Coeff.:...0.354
Powder:........IMR-4350 53.1 grains
Primer:........Winchester WLR
Case:..........Winchester
Firearm:.......Winchester 70
Velocity @ 15':2944

Cartridge:.....30-06 Springfield
Bullet:........Sierra 168 Grain Boat Tail Hollow Point
Bal. Coeff.:...0.475
Powder:........IMR-4350 56.6 grains
Primer:........Winchester 8-1/2
Case:..........Winchester
Firearm:.......Ruger 77R
Velocity @ 15':2801

Cartridge:.....30-06 Springfield
Bullet:........Nosler 180 Grain Partition
Bal. Coeff.:...0.474
Powder:........IMR-4350 55.0 grains
Primer:........Winchester 8-1/2
Case:..........Winchester
Firearm:.......Ruger 77R
Velocity @ 15':2746

All loads shoot less than 1-inch, 5-shot, 200-yard groups.

30-06: 57.5 of any of the 4350's/165 Speer FB or R-P Core-Lokt/Federal GM Match/F210M primer/3.24" O'al w/Speer or 3.21" O'al w/Core-Lokt. 2780 FPS and 1-1.5" 5 shot groups in any 30-06 I've ever tried.

270: 54.5 I(orH)4350/130 Speer Flat Base/W-W Case/WLR primer/3.24" O'al. In 2 different Rem 700's, the above load has averaged 1" +/- 5 shot groups and 2980 FPS.

R-WEST

270
58.5 gr 4831 SC
130 Horn
CCI LR primer

I'll have to look in my book for the 30-06 w 4350 150 load I use. I don't use it any more.

Alan

My most accurate load in the .270 Win. with 130 grain Nosler Partition bullets has been as follows: 55.5 grains IMR 4350, Fed. 210 primer, WW cases.

In the 270 Win with 130 grain Nosler partitions, I now use Reloader 22 instead of IMR4350.

In my rifle, a Pre-64 M70, my most accurate load with IMR4350 is 200 fps slower than my most accurate load with Reloader 22.

Tim

For my .30-06, IMR4350 is the powder to use.

Rifle....FN Mauser 24" barrel
Caliber..270 Win.
Bullet...150 gr. Nosler Partition
Powder...H-4831
Charge...57.0 gr.
Velocity.2999 FPS*
Groups...Dime sized.
Rifle has a very fast barrel. 130 gr. Noslers reach 3200 FPS, but the rifle absolutely hates anything in 130 gr. Best group I ever got with 130's was 2.0". Most run in the three inch range. Weird rifle. Ugly stock. But it's a shooter.
Paul B.

FN Mauser 270, 22" barrel lightweight contour
130Grain Hornadies and Nosler Partitions
59G H4831SC
Winchester Brass
CCI 200 Primers
.6-.7 groups (3 shot)

Never had any luck with accurate loads in any of my 30-06 or 270 rifles with H4350, so fell back to the old standby- h4831 and never looked back.

GREEN788,
First the general information. Both rifles are Remington M-700 BDL, CCI BR2 primers used for both. H-4350 powder used in both. The cases for both rifles are Winchester .280 Rem. nickle that have been fully prepped and converted to the .270 and the .30-06. Information on group size, extreme spread, standard deviation and velocities are the average of five five shot groups.

1) .270 Win., 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips,
56.5 grains of powder, OAL is 3.460", group is .350" c/c, vel=3081 fps, ext. spd.=26.1 fps and std. dev.=10.4 fps.

2) .30-06Spfd. 165 grain Sierra SBT.59.5 grain
of powder. case length=2.517". OAL=3.428".
group=.247" c/c. Vel=2830 fps. ext. spd.=11.0 fps. std. dev.=5.1 fps.

I'm still working on other bullets and will have more info later. These loads are safe and accurate in my rifles. God only knows what they'll do in you rifle.

My old 06 loads- 190 Hornady BTSP, 57.7g IMR4831, Rem. / Win. brass, CCI large rifle primer, .75" groups in a Win. model 70 24" barrel w/ a 6x Leupold.
Other load was: 200g Speer GS, 56.8g BLC-2, Rem./ Win. brass, WLR primer, .75" groups.
The 190 Hornadys worked fine for speed goats so I stuck with them for the 350 yds. and less.
I "Whelenized" the 06 several years ago and tricked it up. Now it shoots 1/2" groups with 250g Hornady RN's.

Bob,

I was wondering how the 59.5 grain charge you mention groups at 200 yards and beyond. I did find good results from 59.5 grains of H4350 with my 165's at 100 yards (one three shot group came in right at 1/4"). But things opened up well beyond 1/2 MOA at 200 to 300 yards.

That doesn't quite make sense to me unless I was simply not controlling the recoil of the rifle that well in the prone position.

The OAL I use is 3.345", which is considerably shorter than yours. Does your rifle's magazine hold those loads? I haven't tried stretching mine out that far as of yet.

Dan Newberry
green 788

With H4350 and 165 gr bullets I use fed 210 primers and 57.5 grains of powder in my mdl 700 30-06.

That rifles best groups with hunting bullets happens with 61.5 grains of r19 and 150 gr partions and fed 210 primers.

I used H4350 on 3 elk and 4 deer, but the r19 just shoots better in my rifle.

I hope I'am not fouling the Poll Up but I don't use any of the listed Powders.
My PET load in the 3006 is
Rem.Case,WLR Primer,any 150 gr Bullet,56 grs of
H-414,2900 to 3025 fps depending on the Bullet used.
Don't use a 270.

My favorite powder for the 270 was H4831. Now it's RL22.

I was load developing the other day, and I shot a .39" group with the following load:

51.5 gr. IMR 4350
CCI 200 primer
Winchester brass
180 gr. Rem PSPCL

After that, my groups opened up again. Can any one tell me why, when I am nowhere near the capacity of the case? It's practically a .308 with that load.

Model 70,

Almost certainly, your load density isn't high enough for consistency. There is too much room in the case which allows the powder to pour forward, creating inconsistent ignition. If you use the same charge and, after chambering a round, point the muzzle skyward to allow the powder to pour back against the primer, and then ease the rifle onto the bags, your groups will probably return.

That's not something you're going to want to do in the field, of course. I would try 55 grains of the IMR 4350 with your 180's, somewhere in that ballpark you'll find what you're looking for.

Let us know how it goes,

Dan Newberry
green 788

In my .270, with 130 gr. Hornady I use 60.0 H-4831, Rem 9.5M primers, R-P cases. Gets me about 3,021 fps.

Telly

GREEN 788,
I've grouped the '06 at 300 yards with two five shot groups. Off the top of my head, which is pretty murky, both were under an inch and the average was right at 7/8". I like to start out with a seating depth just off the lands. With the '06, this required a case longer than the S.A.A.M.I. specs. I used a Sinclair chamber length gage to determine the length of my chamber to be 2.517". Trimming to 2.513" gives the case enough neck to hold the bullet securely.

I have been testing the .270 seating depth effect on accuracy. That rifle seems to like the Nosler 130 grain Ballistic Tip .020" to .025" off the lands. Pressures have gone up some and I now get some cratering of the primer. I've loaded, but not yet tested, a powder charge from 54.0 grains to 56.0 grains of powder in half grain steps. Seems as if the more I test, the less I know.

Dan, the magazine of my rifle will allow the length of the '06s without problems. However, after the second or third shot the cases in the magazine seem to move around enough that the tips start to flatten a little, but do not move back into the case. This is also a benefit of the longer necks. It is not unheard of for a bullet to group 1/2 MOA at 100 yards, 1MOA at 150 and 1/4 MOA at 200 yards. Or at various ranges. It seems bullets sometime have a need to settle down, or "go to sleep". Or in the words of a popular song during WWII, "straighten up and fly right".
All I can add Dan is, if you're unhappy with 1/2 MOA at 300 yards your as finiky as I am. Plus I think you are braging!!! I know I would. Sorry to be so long in my answer. A real pretty girl came to the house and I thought I should remember something, but I couldn't. Take care all.

Thanks for the info Bob. I can get 1/2 MOA with the 57.5 grain charge, but not with the 59.2 grain charge at 300 yards.

And I think I know why now.

I conversed with a Sierra tech the other day (who incidentally said that Sierra techs do endorse the David Tubbs fire lapping kit, at least that was true for the ones he'd heard opine on it. And Sierra has hired Tubbs to narrate some of their instructional videos).

Anyway, the tech (Robert was his name) pointed out that when firing prone, I was altering the harmonics of the rifle enough that the 59.2 grain H4350 groups were opening up significantly (about MOA rather than 1/2 MOA). I had already suspected this, and said so at HuntAmerica (I go by "Wizard" over there), but it helped to have the Sierra tech confirm this.

The 59.2 grain load worked really well from the bench at 100 yards, but not from the prone field position in my rifle at 225 and 300 yards. The 57.5 grain load groups a shade larger than the 59.2 grain charge from the bench at 100 yards, but significantly tighter for my rifle at longer distances from field positions.

John Barsness opined recently that scope parallax was probably the most common culprit for loads that change MOA performance dramatically at different ranges, but I am aware of the tendency for some bullets to stabilize or "go to sleep" as distance increases. I think that most of these instances involve bullets seated with too much runout. Bullet weight/barrel twist rate mismatches are probably another reason that this occurs.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and congratulations on having a great shooting 700. Know that many folks will doubt such good performance from a factory rifle, but my nose doesn't point that high. I've seen many factory rifles turn in phenominal performance when properly fed.

Take care, and stay in touch,

Dan

Rem sportsman 78 22"BBL
130gr Partition
54.5grs IMR-4350
CCI Lg rifle primer
3,000FPS
.75-1.0" groups