Should I load to the velocity level mentioned in the manual then stop. Or load to the charge weight given in the book and be happy with what ever velocity I get.

I am newby to reloading.

I have only reloaded for one rifle a Win M70 chambered for 375H&H.

I have most of the popular and current load manuals, Hodgdon, Hornady, Speer, Lyman, Nosler.

The recipe I tried to follow is from the Hodgdon's 2008 Annual Manual reloading magazine
which called for:

Winchester cases (I used Remington from factory loads).

Federal 215M primer (bought them and used them).

300gr Sierra SPBT (used 300gr Hornady SPBT).

Hodgdon H4350 powder (bought it and used it).

I know your not suppose to make any subsitutions in components on a published load recipe but allowance must be made for components that are just not available where I live (notice how recipes always call for components you don't have or worse can't get).

Hodgdon's manual says minimum load 77.0 grs. of H4350 should get 2539 fps and max load 81.5 grs. should get 2645 fps. with a 300 gr bullet.

Now my problem is my Beta Master Shooting Chrony says this load is about 90 fps faster than the book value at both minimum and maximum load levels.

Again should I load to the velocity level mentioned in the manual then stop. Or load to the charge weight given in the book and be happy with what ever velocity I get (baring pressure signs of course).
I was expecting to get pressure signs as I increased the charge weight which was done in 3 tenths increments. Bolt lift, extraction, primer condition was normal, that is it felt like the 100 factory cartridges I fired (which also chrono'd about 85 fps faster than the 2690 fps nominal that Remington claims for its 270 gr. round nose soft points).

I compare/study similar load recipes from the different manuals it madding.
The Hornady's book stated max charge weight is where the Hodgdon's starts.
Now I know IMR4350 is not H4350 but within a grain or two it should be close, after all one of those powders got to market first and the second was designed to be a copy hence the similar marketing name and very close performance. One company was trying to clone the other product.

Maybe I should back the 300gr load off, to original Holland & Holland specs which I read was 2400 fps.

I was hoping to speed up the 300gr load to max and slow down the 270gr to match it, to see if I could live the dream/myth that the 375H&H could place bullets of different weights close to the same point of aim.

Loading to achieve the book velocity you are asking for trouble. It should not be used to set a max load level. While I've had a couple rifles faster than book like yours. The majority are slower and I've had some that would show major pressure before reaching the max velocity listed for a powder.

Book data is a reference. Not a fact. Each rifle will respond differently. Most will start in the middle of a powder range and work up watching for pressure or measuring head expansion or both. Some then stop at the book max other sill continue pass continue watching for pressure signs.

Feel free to swap out case, primers etc from the books as long as you are not sitting at the max load with your powder. Starting a load in the middle of the data start with any primer or case you want(use magnum when needed) and then work up. If you are then going to swap components and you are at max load back off a grain or two and work back up.

As to same point of impact that is the luck of the draw. Same velocity two weight bullets doesn't mean they will hit at the same point down range.

GreenJoy, I have been loading and chronographing the .375 H&H for nearly 20 years. It is possible that your barrel is faster than the average barrel. Back when I acquired my 2nd .375 a friend did so also and he purchased the identical rifle. When chronographing identical ammunition through his .375; his rifle was 105 ft/secs faster with 300 grain full house loads. That said, since you are relatively new to reloading remember to always use caution and default to saftey in the choices you make. The only thing which produces velocity is pressure, so you should load to safe and normal velocity not the powder charge a book says should work. Don't be confused by results which seem to conflict with expectations. You are the expert on the scene, act like one.

Greenjoy,

One thing really helps with your reloading projects, and when/if you want to load for a wildcat: what do you want the cartridge to do?

If you can answer that, then you can decide all the other variables like bullet weight, bullet construction, velocity, etc.

I am sure you have a specific game animal in mind for your 375 H&H. Load for that animal,and then you can use the same load on other similar (or smaller even!) game.

Having a hunting scenario in mind really helps.
After that, everything falls into place.

Also, don't drink and reload. That's how I got the nickname "Stumpy".

Garrett

Greenjoy: Since you say you are new to reloading, you may not know what several posters mean when they refer to a "fast" rifle. Firearm chambers are manufactured (virtually world wide) to SAAMI specifications. Within those specifications there is an acceptable range of measurements. A chamber that is cut to fall close to the minimum measurement will cause velocities to peak sooner (due to the tighter containment of the charge) than will a chamber that is cut closer to the maximum allowable space. This is refered to as a "fast" rifle. A more generously cut chamber allows the peak pressure to occur further along the length of the barrel so that the bullet builds toward it's top speed more smoothly with less pressure (slow rifle). Most rifles will fall somewhere in between. At the end of the day, you will find that each rifle is an individual that requires load developement specifically for itself. Hope this is helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by greenjoy:
Should I load to the velocity level mentioned in the manual then stop. Or load to the charge weight given in the book and be happy with what ever velocity I get. neither.....you should load to your needs within the constraints of your rifle and brass



The recipe I tried to follow is from the Hodgdon's 2008 Annual Manual reloading magazine
which called for:

Winchester cases (I used Remington from factory loads).

Federal 215M primer (bought them and used them).

300gr Sierra SPBT (used 300gr Hornady SPBT).

Hodgdon H4350 powder (bought it and used it).

I know you not suppose to make any subsitutions in components on a published load recipe but allowance must be made for components that are just not available where I live (notice how recipea always call for components you don't have or worse can't get). there is nothing wrong with some kinds of substitutions as long as we start low and work up. However changing powder requires another whole load and work up.



Hodgdon's manual says minimum load 77.0 grs. of H4350 should get 2539 fps and max load 81.5 grs. should get 2645 fps. with a 300 gr bullet.

Now my problem is my Beta Master Shooting Chrony says this load is about 90 fps faster than the book value at both minimum and maximum load levels.


I was expecting to get pressure signs as I increased the charge weight which was done in 3 tenths increments. Bolt lift, extraction, primer condition was normal, that is it felt like the 100 factory cartridges I fired (which also chrono'd about 85 fps faster than the 2690 fps nominal that Remington claims for its 270 gr. round nose soft points).

I compare/study similar load recipes from the different manuals it madding.
The Hornady book stated charge weight max is where the Hodgdon's starts. get used to it.....it's why we work up our own loads.....it's also why we use several load sources. I find Hodgdon's website t be a very good reference for good loads. The Hornady manual does not list the pressures they achieved in their loads


Now I know IMR4350 is not H4350 but within a grain or two it should be close after all one of those powders got to market first and the second was designed to be a copy hence the similar marketing name and very close performance one company was trying to clone the other product. This is horribly bad reasoning and will get you into trouble. The 4350 powders may in fact be identical but unless you know that for a fact they should be treated separately. IMR 4831 is not at all like H 4831 and your reasoning would suggest they can be substituted.


I was hoping to speed up the 300gr load to max and slow down the 270gr to match it, to see if I could live the dream/myth that the 375H&H could place bullets of different weights close to the same point of aim.
the difference between the 270 and 300 loads is so small you'd just be better off shooting everything with the 300sIf you wanted the 250 to shoot the same place as the 300s then it might be worth the effort but there's no guarantees it will ever happen

All n all it seems you're doing fine but don't get too hung up on the chrono reading....it can lead you down a bad road.

Also the idea of similar sounding powders being similar can also get you into trouble.....as far as I know H-4350 and IMR-4350 and even AA-4350 may be all identical powders.....but we don't know that. Until it's confirmed by someone of credibility (Hodgdons) we should treat them as separate powders.

You must learn to use the books as reference information and let your gun and brass tell you the specifics.

Are your loads too hot? Use your chrono to help find out. Knowing bullet speed will not equate to knowing chamber pressure. But knowing 'trends' in the speed as you work up your loads from starting to max will be helpful, as will reading pressure signs of your brass.

BTW, on average Remington brass is heavier than Winchester brass, thus the Winchester will have more case capacity and yield lower pressure than the same amount of powder in a Remington case. Weigh them both and see for yourself.

What do I mean by 'trends?' You said you started out at 77 grains of H4350 and then increased each succeeding load by 3 tenths of a grain until you got to max of 81.5. That's about 14 increments. Did you notice anything about how much speed each increment increased (or decreased)? If you got, say, a ~30fps increase with each addition of 3 tenths of grain of powder for the first 12 increments, but then got no additional speed for the 13th and, perhaps, a decrease for the 14th, that 'trend' will tell you that you've gotten to the end of efficiency at the 12th incerment for those particular cartridge components. Adding more powder is dangerous and wasteful.

onefnzr2:

Analyzing my chrono results and doing a bit of math showed the "trends" just as you mentioned.

The velocity increased roughly 12 fps per 3 tenths grain increment.

Then no speed gains appeared in the data even though the charge weight was increased.

At the max charge level the velocity was actually at the same speed that was achieved 3 charge weight steps previously.

So out of the 16 charge weight steps that took the load from min 77.0 grs to max 81.5 grs it looks like velocity topped out at step 13.
No gains on step 14 & 15 and step 16 showed the same velocity as step 13.

I have seen this with other reloading....increases in powder charge not necessarily increasing the velocity. I can't explain why it happens and won't even guess.....but it does happen.

Obviously if one likes the performance and accuracy of the load in discussion then he cuts back the powder to the point it stopped delivering results and walla....you have a good load for the field.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I have seen this with other reloading....increases in powder charge not necessarily increasing the velocity. I can't explain why it happens and won't even guess.....but it does happen.

Obviously if one likes the performance and accuracy of the load in discussion then he cuts back the powder to the point it stopped delivering results and walla....you have a good load for the field.

I think that after a certain pressure, the gasses can't expand any faster than at lower ones. "Heavy" gasses such as H2O and CO2 expand more slowly than light gasses such as Hydrogen or Helium.

My .375 reloading experience says (current) Remington brass is junk. Stick with fewer reloads -- maybe even only four per case and watch for case separation near the "ring". WW brass is better in terms of more reloads per case before discarding.

I see the error of my ways.
My rifle is a "fast" or tight chambered rifle.
I will choose a load from my test results that Hodgdon considers the starting point load (77 grs).

I may even reduce it more as Hodgdon's start load velocity exceeds Hornady's published max velocity by over 100 fps.
I was getting the tightest groups at the lowest velocity during my ladder test and I rather have accuracy in my loads than speed.

The eye opener was when I got on the wrong page of my Hornady manual and noticed the higher test loads in my development were faster than 375 Weatherby Magnum and thats in an improved case carrying 10 grs more powder.

As an experiment I wanted to see how much H4350 I could but in a case in order to have the bullet sitting on the powder column at exactly the right COL height for crimping.

I took one of my unsized fired cases and using a 15" long drop tube and vibration I determined 73 grs filled the case to the COL for the Hornady 300 gr BTSP.
So it looks like I have some wiggle room if I want to reduce my load another 1 or 2 grs.

It was interesting to see a 300 gr bullet sitting on the powder column slowing spinning around and around by the vibrations and sinking deeper into the cartridge case.
When the bullet stopped sinking I lifted it out, dumped the powder in the scale trickled a few more granules and long dropped it again. Repeating the whole process till the bullet would stay floating on the powder column at the COL height.

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BNagel:
So what's wrong with 375 H&H Remington brass that makes it qualify as junk in your experience?

I have read that the Rem brass is slightly heavier than Winchester brass giving a reduced volume inside. I would think the thicker case walls would support more firing resize cycles before they thin out to the point where they must be discarded for safety.

I sized & trimmed to length a fresh bag of 50 Rem 375 H&H cases, weighed them individually an found their average weight. I compared this to the two lone Winchester cases I have.
The Win cases were slightly heavier than the Rem average.
Now I realize 2 cases is a too small a sample for statistics accuracy but I was expecting them to weigh lighter than the average Rem case.

I have noticed that most reloading manual use Winchester brass in their load recipes.
I suspect it is so the powder companies get you to use more of their powder and the bullet making companies get to show faster bullet speeds with their pills at lower pressure.
Ya, I'm a bit of a cynic.

greenjoy

I read that WW cases were thicker. I can get 6+ reloads from other .375 H&H brass cf. only 4 or so with the Remington stuff -- factory loads originally. Fire-formed in .375 Weatherby chamber ZKK 602 and subsequently reloaded for same. The Remington brass was longer / "shrunk" less than NORMA, WW, etc. and closer to .375 WeM in eventual length after fire-formed. I think it is softer, but A-Square brass is even worse!

To precisely answer -- I didn't like the case separation and that even crimped at the cannelure the Rem brass loads in my magazine let the bullets get pushed into the cases.

Barry

I found this tool pretty good for promoting case life in the 375H&H Mag.

http://www.larrywillis.com/