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I would sooner be hunting with anal weirdo's then the wankers who are happy with 10" groups at 100yards. "Huh look bubba, 3 outta 6 shots hit the old milwaukie case... i's good to go." One of the scarier moments for me at the range was someone dressed up in a police swat jumpsuit shooting a scoped AR15 telling me my 1.5" group was really good. And when i saw his 100yard target i thought he was using a 12guage with buckshot. I shot my next batch and it was around .7" and i said i was happy now and he said i crazy. I really hope i am not near him if he ever discharges his firearm on duty... | ||
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You know what they say... "If a police officer shoots at you, your best bet is to run straight away. Do not bob and weave or you'll run right into one of his errant shots!!"  A police chief, who was also a firearms instructor, told me that one!!  | |||
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Back in the 50s I really liked to listen to most all types of music.Starting with a RCA tube manual I taught myself how to design HI Fi equipment. Stereo really wasn't to be had than. The more I worked with it the better the sound reproduction got.I developed what they called the golden ear. I could enjoy only really great reproduced music. From than on when I went to lets say a party instead of enjoying the music that was playing I became a critic. Now I love to experiment with loading and small groups are a blast. But I still have fun shooting an old war relic off hand at tin cans(or aluminum). When the striving for perfection creates a loose of enjoyment it is time for a priority adjustment in my not too humble opinion.  roger | |||
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Quote: Hey Roger, Which step is that in the "Non-Weird Reloader's Anonymous" Program? | |||
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"Hey Roger, Which step is that in the "Non-Weird Reloader's Anonymous" Program? " It comes just before; If you happen to achieve perfection what's the next step?  roger | |||
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The next step is doing it the next time... The perfect load, the perfect weather, the perfect target.. And the next week its a 2" group and you are all pissed off. | |||
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"And the next week its a 2" group and you are all pissed off. " You only thought it was perfect. Now is the time to ENJOY bouncing beer cans, twigs , or bottles off hand. Maybe a little side wager for insentive; some BSing,a little ball busting, if your equipt,and than back to your paper whistle pigs.   roger | |||
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First Step: Good evening. My name is Ku-dude, and I'm a reloader who seeks perfection. | |||
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Yah, exactly. I never knew I was truely addicted until a couple months ago a rifle that went .3" on good days and .5" in general went 2". New scope, new mounts, stock removed and remounted, and a really good scrub job. The scope wasn't necessary since it was the mounts after all, but something like that can be a good excuse for a new scope. Just loose mounts and nearly $340 dollars spent on scope and mounts, bullets pulled, arguments with my wife,  my head still hurts thinking about it! Now steve, you have to admit you still suffer from this even though you are not a br guy since you reload for accuracy! Come on! Denial isn't the answer here! | |||
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Okay, I guess it is time to clarify my original post... How many of you looked at the tolerance specs in my original post? What I was trying to say was that with the factories having THAT much leeway in their specifications, is it really necessary for reloaders to be concerned with 0.00005". My opinion is, "No." +/- 0.005" is damn good, and 0.05" would be practical for the average reloader. | |||
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Yah, and in my opinion runout is the bad one that can make you crazy. I have seen differences in accuracy when runout gets too bad (.002" isn't bad), and setting up a die slightly wrong will throw it off. That is where my weirdness (if you can call it that, more like cause of insanity) steps in. So many things to control. | |||
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Quote: Hey Steve, Yes, I looked and IMMEDIATELY turned my head away. It seems you are somehow obsessed with forcing "REALITY" down on us Non-Weirdo Reloaders. As for me, "NO THANKS!" I really don't want to deal with that. I would explain why, but I NEED to go do some Case Segregation by Weight - right now!!! ... The current questions I'm pondering are, "How many Primer Pockets should be Squared with the carbide cutter Whitetail Engineering Design tool before it needs to be replaced?" "If you Square one more Pocket than you should, what will happen to the accuracy???" | |||
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If I cant get any better than 3" moa then Ill just try a Lee collet die as a last resort. If that still doesnt get it then that rifle will take a walk down gun show alley. .00005 is far too obsessive and time consuming, no thanks. Generally I start to grin at about 1.5 moa, though my favorite rifles will best that easily without the collet dies. Dave Scovill did an article about this sort of thing a year or so back and it ended "So while I enthusiastically support all you folks who want to shoot those itsy bitsy clusters of bullet holes on paper, Im going hunting." I couldnt agree more. | |||
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Quote: Hey Steve, After posting last night, it finally dawned on me you did make a serious post with a bit of humor tossed in. And it seems like a lot of us focused on the humorous portion without addressing the serious portion. So, yes indeed, there are a whole bunch of "Tolerances" when it comes to a Case, Chamber and Bore - lots and lots of them. Some of them can work to our advantage if they go in the correct direction and of course the opposite would also be true. Most of the "Tricks or Techniques" we (Non-Weirdo) Reloaders use do seem to nullify a HUGE portion of the Variation or make it so insignificant that it is beyond our control. Here is where "accepting" a certain amount of "controllable variations" separates the guys who are happy with a bit larger groups(like Scoville) from us Non-Weirdos. We choose to reduce the "controllable variations" to an absolute minimum and gain both better Accuracy Potential and Confidence in the Final Load. ... In a similar way, I see lots of folks go to enormous amounts of effort to reduce "Neck Runout", while I don't give it any serious consideration at all. Having pondered this for many years, I believe that Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) is what allows "my" groups not to suffer from the effects of Runout. From what I've read on the various Boards and discussed with others, it seems the majority of the people who experience Neck Runout Problems are those who use Neck Sizing. I don't mean that as a condemnation of Neck Sizing, just an observation. And if they choose to fret Neck Runout and go to huge amounts of effort to reduce it, I still view them as falling within the Non-Weirdo Reloaders. However, rather than "totally waste my time" fretting Neck Runout , I'd rather focus on SERIOUS Reloading techniques like Deburring the Flash Hole or polishing the inside of the Case Mouth/Neck with "0000 Steel Wool".... By the way, are you talking about "Group Sizes" here? Quote: | |||
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