Hi,

I am considering my next gun purchase and would like a 1911. I have been reloading colt 45 and 45 ACP for a Ruger Blackhawk convertible for several months with great luck. I was considering getting a Colt GM 1911 to also use with 45 ACP dies.

I was wondering if anyone had advice for any 1911 style handgunds that are workhorses in terms of durability for reloading or any that I should avoid. Is the Colt 45 1911 acp for example a good choice if I want a high quality firearm that will take handloads.(I do not load hot by the way).


Thanks
D.J.

I'm not saying stay away from it, but if you load lead for a Glock, you'll need to get an after market barrel for it. Some people say you don't, some people say you do, I'm in the you do camp.

quote:

Originally posted by D.J. Duck:
Hi,

I am considering my next gun purchase and would like a 1911. I have been reloading colt 45 and 45 ACP for a Ruger Blackhawk convertible for several months with great luck. I was considering getting a Colt GM 1911 to also use with 45 ACP dies.

I was wondering if anyone had advice for any 1911 style handgunds that are workhorses in terms of durability for reloading or any that I should avoid. Is the Colt 45 1911 acp for example a good choice if I want a high quality firearm that will take handloads.(I do not load hot by the way).


Thanks
D.J.

Kimber

There are very few guns that have reload problems as long as your loads and cases are good. Bad sizing is the biggest problem with reloads in most guns. Glock has two problems first is that their barrels don't like lead bullets, second the feed ramp causes Glock belly. The base of the shell expands into the feed ramp and takes extra effort to resize.

I'm a Springfield Armory .45 fan.

The .45ACP is a grand caliber and has been proven over and over in combat to be a man stopper.

My experience is that my .45 operates best when running at the intended velocity of the original design. I have a Para-ordinance P-14-45 which is a 1911 frame with a staggered magazine to hold 14 rounds. I get the best accuracy, and great accuracy is obtainable in this caliber, with rounds in the 700-850 fps range. You can run hotter loads but may need to changing out some recoil springs to ease the wear on the frame, but you desires are not to run hot with this caliber. I've been using a hard cast 200 grain bullet out of a H&G mold with 4.3 grains of Bullseye. You will need to experiment with your shooter to find which combinations work out the best for accuracy.

Personally I would stay away from a .45ACP in a Glock format for the reasons mentioned by Sam above.

Any of the 1911 formats would serve you well, although they can get spendy. The Springfield .45ACP XD-M is a great package with all the extras you get with it and our experience has been very good with the Springfields. We have 3 of them in our family.

You absolutely CANNOT beat a good 1911 platform for .45 ACP. It is arguably the best fighting handgun EVER.

I have several 1911's, two S&W 625's in .45 ACP as well as a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible. I can run the same loads successfully in all three different platforms (1911, dbl action revolver, and single action revolver).

However, it requires tailoring the load for the 1911 then it will run perfectly in the rest.

The 1911 is easy to reload for, but there are some things you need to know (bullet seating depth, proper taper crimping, and best bullet design). All of those things are relatively easy to learn and you are GOOD TO GO.

I have revolvers chambered in all of the major calibers but my .45 ACP revolvers are my most used.

My most used bullet in all three platforms is my home cast (from a MiHec mould) H&G #68 clone. It can be driven from 650 fps to 1000 fps with excellent results regarding accuracy and terminal results.

Dale53

As Dale pointed out the 1911 and the 45 ACP were designed for each other.

One that you want to look pretty hard at again is Colt.

Colt is really coming back around again from their days of no products and no service. I had bought one of the first new Combat Elites and it is the equal of my heavily customized Colt Government Model 1911 Series 80. As it is Colt has a small recall on these and sent me the info and the paid shipper. Good stuff from Colt. The ones from the Colt Custom Shop are more - but nice and you get more!

Id stay clear of the norinco's ive seen them having some problems with reloads at my local range, may not be the firearms fault but id still stay clear of any norinco firearms.

It would be hard to find a bad 1911 design today. It just depnds on what you want; full size steel frame, Commander length alloy, Officer's modle, target sights, fixed sights, lots of options. I think one of the best bang for your buck 1911s are those made by S&W. SOme don't like the ext extractor, but if yo uare not a purist, it won't matter. The base modle SPringfields are very good if you just want a basic 1911 shooter.

And adding what to stay away from .....

Well while there are good ones I would stay away from most plastic guns. HK is solid and shoots about anything. The older Ruger is bulky and tanky but good as well - cant say model (P45 or something?).

Chinese stuff, Korean stuff, Brazilian stuff, most Italian stuff - in handguns 45 guns that is -ughhh no. Even the older Smith and Wesson autos can be pretty fussy on ammo and on reloads.

For the Colts, or clones, you can add to them all day long. Parts are there. Accessories are there. You can get 50,000 to 75,000 rounds out of steel one - as is the new ones and of course the older one. The HKs would do that too and easier on cleanings etc - but no real parts and only a small fration of the accessories for an HK. There aint no HK barrels or triggers around - oh and you have to wait on HK. Which is not going to come out good unless you are law enforcement or military.

Wilson Comabt and some of those guys, say Ed Brown too, do nice work and sometimes you can find a nice one for smaller money.

But all in all I still say look at the new Colts. I think I olnly paid $800 or something for the one and it has a match barrel, Novak style sights, S&A beavertail and grip safety and is top notch reliable. It will eat way way over its cost in ammo or reloads in a short time - something a bud of mine Andrew has found out quick !

Great advise, thank you all. A couple folks mentioned looking at the newer Colts. How do I know what is new? Is there a production year/period to start with or stay away from?

Thanks

I would start with the "new" ones at around 2008 production and newer of the Colt "1991" series as they call it.

Most any gun store that have any will show you the new ones. I dont have time at the minute to spell it all out but follow the link below to the Colt site and click "Pistols" and you should be able to read, shop and drool for a while.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/

For a traditional 1911-
Les Baer Custom 1911
Smith & Wesson Performance Center 1911
Sig Sauer 1911
Dan Wesson 1911

If tradition isn't an issue-
Smith & Wesson Performance Center 945
Smith & Wesson 645/745/4506
Sig Sauer P220

For carry guns-
S&W 945/4506 or Sig Sauer P220

Kimber's/Springfield Armory &/or any combat tupperware aren't allowed in the safe!!

Stick with Ruger and get you a P345, it's what I use for a carry gun. It's not clunky like the P90s are. A very nice slim gun with double action for the first shot.

I was shooting with my buddy and his brother-in-law. I was next to him, and he was shooting an old 1911. He had worked up some "really good" handloads, using his "standard load" and some bullets he had...for the .45-70. (45 bullets are all the same caliber, right?)

I noticed something amiss when his gun would eject the fired brass, I could say "I got it", wait a beat or two, stick out my hand and catch it.

I then noticed some nice little scoops blown out of the brass just where the case was unsupported by the feed ramp. After about a magazine full, his gun disassembled. It broke the ears off the barrel bushing, and the leftover piece and recoil spring landed in the dirt about 5 feet in front of him.

Researching the mattter, I found a standard 45-70 bullet to be .453 in. diameter, whereas the .45 ACP bullets are .451 in.(Oh, Well, only .002 in. difference, just a smidge, right? ) Unknown what his load was,but pressures had to be stratospheric!

John Browning's design saved both him and me from injury.

I guess the point of all this is: get a good loading manual, use it, be sure the components are proper, don't try to make a 45-70 out of the 1911-style handgun, and you will be a happy camper.

C.C.;
Actually, .45/70 bullets are of a nominal size of .457" and can go as large as .460". Even more important they run from 300-500grs plus.

However, your point was well taken.

A lot of cast bullet shooters with the .45 ACP size their cast bullets from .451"-.452". I have shot well over 100,000 cast bullets in my .45 ACPs sized at .452". They have been nearly all home cast bullets.

>>>I guess the point of all this is: get a good loading manual, use it, be sure the components are proper, don't try to make a 45-70 out of the 1911-style handgun, and you will be a happy camper.<<<

GREAT comment!

Dale53

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dale53:
C.C.;
Actually, .45/70 bullets are of a nominal size of .457" and can go as large as .460". Even more important they run from 300-500grs plus.


Absolutely right! Thanks for the correction. My memory isn't what it used to be. Checked my reloading manuals... .457 listed as "nominal" diameter. No wonder his pressures were high!

My Kimber handles all the reloads (lead, hardball, HP, Semi wadcuters etc) I've stuck in it.

I have three 1911 platforms. Two are full blown customs and the third is a Kimber CDP Ultra II.

If I had it to do, today, I would buy a Kimber or a Springfield Armory (both produce a number of different variants). They offer wonderful cosmetics as well as excellent reliability and accuracy for a very respectable price.

Dale53

quote:

Originally posted by C.C.:
I was shooting with my buddy and his brother-in-law. I was next to him, and he was shooting an old 1911. He had worked up some "really good" handloads, using his "standard load" and some bullets he had...for the .45-70. (45 bullets are all the same caliber, right?)
.

That has nothing to do with the gun but an ignorant reloader. Firing 300gr/0.457" bullets in a 45acp is a KB waiting to happen.

quote:

Is the Colt 45 1911 acp for example a good choice if I want a high quality firearm that will take handloads.

Always get a good TAPER CRIMP die for handloads either lead or jacketed.

The original 1911 does not like hot loads in cartridges with a thin base web. Having said that at all normal full power loads it is not a problem!

Cast HARD for the 1911 as it is bored for jacketed bullets with the rifling grooves not very deep.

Also soft bullets can "catch" on the back of the barrel when feeding and "hang up".

Thanks to the likes of your American NRA you stll have the right to own handguns.

In England our British NRA was craven and useless accepting every "salami slice" of "gun control by stealth".

We have no handguns now.

enfieldspares;
It saddens me every time I hear of the sorry state of affairs regarding shooting in Great Britain. You folks had a terrific shooting program after the War (WW II) by all accounts.

I started my shooting career with smallbore rifle in the 1950's and well remember lusting over the BSA Martini's that a couple of people in our shooting league used.

In recent years I have been able to acquire a Mk II, a Mk IV, and a Mark V. They are wonderful rifles and I shot them competitively in the ASSRA Single Shot matches until I lost the vision in my right eye.

Now, I am restricted to handguns (I can shoot them right handed and left eyed about as well as I could conventionally). The human body is wonderfully adaptable...

Dale53

I own several 1911 style 45 acp's One of them is a Norinco. It has over 8000 rounds through it with iout a bobble and is a nicely accurate gun. It is stock and has had no modifications made to it ..just a lot of range time. It is my daily carry piece and I trust my life to it. I use it as my loaner gun during CWP classes and everyone likes it. Perhaps I was fortunate to get a good one but I think I would have no problem using a Norinco if you were in need of an economy grade 1911. I have a friend that used his Norince frame to build a custom PIN gun years ago and it is still running just fine.
YMMV

My Colt Government Model with ramp and throat job gobbles up 200 gr. SWC without a jam. On the other hand, my Remington Rand 1911, all original, refuses to feed them at all.

And fwiw, R.P. brass is thin. So much so that I do not expand/bell mouth them. And I do not use them for .451" sized jacketed pills either, only .452" lead.

I have long sorted Remington brass out and never willingly use it in my 1911's. Inadequate neck tension contributes to the possibility of deep seating a bullet when the cartridge slams against the barrel loading ramp. This can raise pressures to the failure point.

My preference is US GI military brass. It requires swaging primer pockets, but you only have to do that once. The brass then is long lived and works extremely well. On the other hand, I have never had a problem with Federal or Winchester commercial brass.

Dale53