Hi all, would somebody gve me a tip or two please?
I am going to start a new workup load for my Ruger MkII 270 Win using Hodgdon 4381SC and Nosler 130 gr ballistic tips with the stock sporter barrel and am having some trouble finding some data for this powder . I went to my Lyman reloading manual which is the only manual I have and it shows data for a 130 gr jacketed SBT using H4831 ( but this is not their 4831SC if it matters?) and the starting load is shown as 52.0 grns and goes up to a max of 58.0 grns which is a compressed load.
I am currently using Fed 210 primers and H4350 at 52.8 grns with the 130 gr ballistic tips and the groups are "ok", but I want to see if I and the rifle can do a little better with the 4831SC .
Would someone mind give me a little data with where to start with the 4831SC powder knowing the info posted above? I did go to Nosler's site and pulled a little info and they only have listed 3 listings with the 130 grn BT, they are 55.0 grns, 57.0 grns and a hot load of 59.0 grns.
I will take the info you provide and work up 5 rounds of each in 1/2 grain increments to see how they do groupingwise. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks,
John

Hi John, Welcome. H4831 and H4831SC are the same powder load data will interchange. Always start low and work up Bullet construction are different from one to the other. The lyman load data would work for me. I would use 53grs as a starting load and work up from there. I have shot 130gr bt on deer and they do a number on WVA. size deer, 90 to 130 lb.
Dave

Here is simply QL data.

Cartridge          : .270 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .277, 130, Nosler BalSilTip 51075
Useable Case Capaci: 60.846 grain H2O = 3.951 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4831 SC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   82    46.40   2305    1534   28272   9151     80.1    1.463
-18.0   84    47.56   2366    1617   30193   9509     81.6    1.424
-16.0   86    48.72   2428    1702   32252   9863     83.2    1.386
-14.0   88    49.88   2491    1791   34448  10214     84.7    1.349
-12.0   90    51.04   2554    1883   36827  10559     86.1    1.312
-10.0   92    52.20   2618    1978   39368  10898     87.5    1.271
-08.0   94    53.36   2682    2076   42101  11228     88.9    1.231
-06.0   96    54.52   2747    2178   45038  11550     90.1    1.192
-04.0   98    55.68   2812    2282   48202  11860     91.4    1.154
-02.0  100    56.84   2877    2390   51614  12159     92.5    1.118
+00.0  102    58.00   2944    2501   55299  12443     93.6    1.083  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  104    59.16   3010    2615   59281  12712     94.6    1.049  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0  106    60.32   3077    2733   63594  12964     95.6    1.016  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0  108    61.48   3144    2853   68274  13198     96.4    0.984  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  110    62.64   3212    2977   73364  13412     97.2    0.953  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  113    63.80   3279    3104   78904  13604     97.9    0.923  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    102    58.00   3112    2796   66470  12745     98.6    0.999  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    102    58.00   2734    2158   45270  11564     85.1    1.188

John, I may get in trouble for what I am about to say, but here goes:

I have been loading for my 270 Win since 1980. It is my experience that with the exception of the mono-metal bullets like Barnes and the Hornady GMX, when it comes to pressures, a 130-grain bullet is pretty much a 130-grain bullet. A knowledgable, cautious handloader can extrapolate data within reason and use it without fear of problems, so long as he takes his time, is careful, and does all the things required to be a prudent handloader.

Now; having said all that, here is what I would add: my go-to load for my 22" BDL is 60 grains of AA 3100 (now discontinued) and a Speer 130-grain Grand Slam in a WW case, lit with a CCI-200 primer. I seat the projectiles .010" off the lands. (It might be of interest that I worked up the load using Sierra SBTs as the projectile, and then swapped to the Grand Slams once I had found a load that worked.) I experience NO pressure issues with that load; primers still have some radius, there are no extractor marks on the case heads, and bolt lift is normal.

AA 3100 is one grain slower than IMR 4831, as related to me by a ballistician at Accurate back in the late 1980s. IMR 4831 is, in my experience, approximately two grains faster than its Hodgdon counterpart.

To sum, I firmly believe that you should be able to start at about 55 grains and work up to 60 grains of the Hodgdon 4831 SC without issue, assuming your rifle does not show high pressure prior to that. (This statement is pretty well reflected in the QL data posted directly above in Ramrod's post.)

Good luck!

Gentlemen, thanks very much for your replies!!
It looks like at approaching 58 grns per Rams chart is getting a place to watch for pressure signs, but I will be looking for them before I get to those grain loads .
I think I'll start out at 53.5 and go up in .5 grn steps to 58, provided I dont see any pressure signs before then.
( flattened primers and cases that show bulging)
Lets see, Alabama is playing Texas in about 5 minutes,... I'll watch that and then go downstairs and load some boolits up.
ROLL TIDE !!
I hope to give them a try tomorrow and I'll report back here with my results.
Im sorta supprised that the chart data doesnt go to 3000 fps until the load reaches 59 grains though...thats ok, those pesky Alabama coyotes wont be able to tell any difference in what hit them between 2800 fps and 3000 fps, right?

Thanks again fellows!!
John

I just looked at Ken Waters pet loads for you.
Based on what I have spent hours learning, Waters loads are middle of the road and conservative(at times).
He list 58 & 60 grs for the 130 Sierra and H4831 in both Win & RP cases.
I do not know the date he did his testing, but according to Barsness , H4831(new stuff) is a little faster burning than the older stuff.
Based on this info, I would start at 55g and work up in .5 grn increments.
Good luck

I run 59 grns H4831SC under 130 Accubonds in by 270 WCF

Over the years I've developed loads for seven different 270s (Remington, Ruger, Browning, Kimber, 3 different Winchesters). Every one of them liked 60.0 H4831 with 130 grain bullets. Velocities (chronographed) usually run 3100 - 3150 fps with normal pressure indicators and groups around 1" or less. Any more I start at 57.0 and increase by 1.0 increments.

Just do a web search for Jack O'Connor's favorite 270 load.

Jack O'Connor's pet load for the 270 was 62 grains of "4831" (Hodgdon's was the only one around then...) behind a 130.

And that is too hot!

O'Connor used 62 grains of H4831 (surplus) in his .270s. In Speer's pressure barrel he got well under 50,000 CUP with one rather "soft" bullet (his words).

BUT - the H4831 powder O'Connor used is long obsolete, newly manufactured H4831 - long or short grained - has a different burn rate. Burn rates also vary from lot to lot of any powder. That is one reason why we work up from below listed maximums.

BTW, Hornady shows a maximum load of H4831 behind a 130 as......62.0 grains. Too hot?


.

My Nosler manual shows h4831sc from 55-59 grains.

Yes, Nimrod... too hot.

Shoot some; then tell us how the bolt lift is and what the extractor marks look like...

I had one rifle with an oversized chamber that wanted 62.0 grains of H4831 to perform the same as many others using 60.0 grains. In any other rifle it was too much. BTW J.O.s pet load was 60.0 - 62.0 was an occasion experiment.

Was not able to go out today and test
anything maybe next weekend hopefuly.
John

AR2213SC made by ADI in Australia is renamed H4831SC for the American market.

The ADI reloading manual #5 lists 56.0grs AR2213SC for 2845fps as a starting load for a 130gr bullet in the 270Win in a 24" barrel and a compressed load of 60.0grs for 3020fps as a maximum load.

If you are relatively new to reloading I would strongly advice you to get a chronograph. The Shooting Chrony is cheap & reliable. Use it to measure your velocity for every single load.

Secondly I would not try for max velocities. Irrespective what has been posted by some, any velocity of 3100 fps or more for a 130 gr bullet out of a 270 Win 24 inch barrel is TOO HOT!

A really accurate load of around 3000 fps is where I would stop.

I have been shooting a 280 Ack Imp for 15 years and I had to develop all my loads as the data was not so reliable then. Most of my loads are 100 fps below max & accuracy it tops. I have taken game out to 400+ meters with 1 shot but 99% of the shots are under 150 meters.

Good luck and SAFE shooting / hunting.

John -
A second for Nakihunter's advice on getting a chronograph.
Before you give up totally on the 4350's, I've had great success with a number of different 270's using 53-55 grains of one of the 4350's (Hodgdon seems to be the winner overall) and pretty much any 130.
Nothing against any of the 4831's, just had the best luck with 4350!!

Appreciate it Naki and R West. Nope, Im not looking for the fastest thing I can send down the barrel, I value my equipment more than that
Im trying to attach a pic of the workup load of H4350 I did last year but having trouble in doing so....the pic icon legend up above the block where I type is confusing to me,,,,,its asking for a image ULR for my pic and since Im not too 'puter savvy, Im not sure on how to do this?

John - Usually (haven't posted pics here in a while), you have to go get your photo wherever it's posted, like Photobucket, and copy the umage URL, then put the URL in your post.
Here's a buck in my back yard (hopefully it comes out okay) from a pic I posted at PhotoBucket:

No his loads worked ok in many rifles.
In the mean time all loads are supposed to be worked up.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Jack O'Connor's pet load for the 270 was 62 grains of "4831" (Hodgdon's was the only one around then...) behind a 130.

And that is too hot!

SR you may be right but that is not the same powder being sold today as H4831.

O'Connor's 4831 was military surplus and slower burning than the ADI made powder being repackaged in the US & sold as H4831.

A lot of the old data from gun writers of the past would be marginal if not dangerous today. For example Bob Mielek did a lot of shooting / hunting with 7mm rifles. His 280 Rem loads are scary by today's norms.

Naki
Do you own or load for a .270?
Do you know what brass and primers O'Connor used? Do you use any data blindly?
Did you know that NO powder being sold today is from the same production lots of 50 years ago?

Bob Milek is not responsible for the safety of your loads....

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
SR you may be right but that is not the same powder being sold today as H4831.

O'Connor's 4831 was military surplus and slower burning than the ADI made powder being repackaged in the US & sold as H4831.

A lot of the old data from gun writers of the past would be marginal if not dangerous today. For example Bob Mielek did a lot of shooting / hunting with 7mm rifles. His 280 Rem loads are scary by today's norms.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Jack O'Connor's pet load for the 270 was 62 grains of "4831" (Hodgdon's was the only one around then...) behind a 130.

And that is too hot!

Spot on!!! Spend the money & get a reloading manual!!!! Quit being cheap. I wouldn't trust or depend on Quickload either. I only use it to verify loads I get from reliable reloading manuals. Using my .270 WSM ass an example, QL gives anemic velocities in loads I get in the manuals. I will admit however that QL seems be rather close to my .270 Win. loads.
Get a manual & go forth.
Bear in Fairbanks