Folks,

sometime ago i bought a big batch of 416 rem BELL cases. I have not had any issues with them including multiple loadings and firing. Last month when I was in Benin I took a shot at the target and saw stars! There was smoke and sparks and something also hit me in the left eye! The client said it looked like I had fired a MZ!

Anyway the bolt opened ok and I discovered that the case had cracked vertically in 3 places over the belt. The bolt of my rifle was a bit buggered up also which pissed me off no end. Anyway I used the rifle after that with rem cases and had no problem and even shot a roan with it. The last day I stupidly decided to shoot at a guinea fowl with a solid loaded in a BELL case (like I said before i have never had a problem with any of them before!) and it happened again, fortunately only 1 crack this time! After that I packed up the gun and used my 375 for the rest of the trip.

On my return i have had the rifle thoroughly checked for headspace and any issues and everything is fine. Just took it to the range as well and fired 20+ rounds with rem brass and all is well!

Now throwing out 400+ empty BELL cases.

Just thought I would post this so take heed.

Arjun

What is an MZ?

MZ=Muzzleloader

Used Bell .404 cases in a couple of my wildcats and only had one problem. One batch had the ejector grooves cut to shallow and they would not fit in the reloadig shell holder. Other than that no problem and some were shot rather hot.Last I heard they were out of business?? roger

Arjun,

Please post a picture if you can. I had the same issue with some Bell cases in .458 Lott a few years ago and posted here about it.

I will try to find my post and provide a link.

A question to clarify reddy375 and Mike's responses: Are you saying the failure rate given the number of loadings is unacceptable or are you saying the points and severity of failure is abnormal? The only reason I ask is it's indicated you loaded and shot them a few times and they finally wore out.

Here's what mine looked like. You be the judge.

Mike

Wow our cases look identical. The case marked 1 had a third crack on the other side of the case.



the exact load was 416 rem mag - 400 grain swift A frame with 79 grains RL15. loaded twice so this was their 3rd firing.

Like I said I have not had any problems with the gun or this load before in the BELL cases, obviously this is a brass problem!

Arjun

Arjun, I've never seen anything like my case failures until I saw yours just now.

I concluded back when mine split that it had to be the brass, and so I did the same as you. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and destroyed the cases.

Mine were brand new cases loaded with 85 grains of VV540 and 500 grain Woodleighs.

I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with them, but they are definitely bad!

What makes me wonder, since the crack extended through the belt, where did the additional space come from to allow that.

Can you mike the belted rim and compare that to other fired brass that did not split plus are you able to re chamber the faulty brass

Or did the gases just burn away the missing brass

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Arjun, I've never seen anything like my case failures until I saw yours just now.

I concluded back when mine split that it had to be the brass, and so I did the same as you. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and destroyed the cases.

Mine were brand new cases loaded with 85 grains of VV540 and 500 grain Woodleighs.

I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with them, but they are definitely bad!

Yes Mike I nearly didnt post any photos but thought you would be interested in seeing the similarity. I have done the same pulled the bullets and dumped 400 cases! Some never used, but am not taking any chances.

Whew! That very much appears to be a defect in the brass. It has to be thinness in the head. Is it possible for you to section a case to see if it exhibits thin spots in the head?

In one of the British manuals, from the 1920s, 1930s, or whenever there was a part of a chapter about this.

It is said to be a defect in the brass that gets "rolled in" much as when you have a split in pastry when rolling out a pizza base.

It only becomes noticeable when the case is fired (or when the pizza is cooked0 then the split comes "out".

I apologise that I don't have the reference. But in the article they recreated the defect and showed diagrams or pictures of it.

They looked normal when sectioned - except for the splits!

Has any of you contacted BELL so the chap can try to mend the "wounds" you have?

Had almost identical failure mode with Military Carcano brass years back. roger

I've seen that recently on another forum but I can't remember where.
Enfieldspares - cases are all AFAIK back extruded .I would like to have looked at the cases to find out what happened.I've come across some weird ones before but was able to find the problem when closely examined .Tears and folds are possible .

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Here's what mine looked like. You be the judge.

Wow! That does seem a bit severe given the number of firings. In looking at your subsequent pictures, the brass looks normal when sectioned, forcing us to conclude there's something wrong with the composition of the metal itself. Neither of your loads were excessive, quite the opposite. It might be worth a call or note to Bell to see if there's anything they can do for you. The worst they could say is "no."

BELL has shut shop I believe! Wonder why!!!

Yes, Arjun. That is the case.

And a severely and severally split case, in this case.

But, in any case, like their cases, BeLL has split. So, we have no recourse.

Still, I thank you for posting your photos.

I was, until I saw them, feeling a bit like Ingrid Bergman in Gaslight.

It's strangely good to know that someone else has had the same problem, whatever it was!

Even though it cost me (and you, too) rather dearly . . . .

Years, twenty or so, ago I bought some .280 Ross cases from HDS. I don't think they were marked, headstamped, as Bell.

However after first firimng abut 20% had small splits where the neck met the top of the shoulder.

So clearly a fault in the brass or the manufacturing of the brass.

Bell used to all there was. I'm happy that there are now other alternatives.

I had the same splits in the neck/shoulder area as stated above with factory Kynoch 404 ammo. I have fired only two of the five cartridges in the box (in different rifles) and both resulted in splits. I have had the ammo for quite awhile, but is newly manufactured, not the old stuff.

Bingo. My splits exactly as on the right in the pic immediately above...

I am not a metallurgist but I did manage the customer service & logistic of a brass, copper & alluminium extrusion mill 20 years ago.

The layering and air pockets in extruded brass comes from not enough heat at the core of the extrusion. I have seen brass rod cross sections with big 1 inch air pockets and also cross sections that looked perfectly solid but when the end was polished, you could see tiny pin pricks, which were the air pockets in the brass.

This from the basic bar stock coming out of the furnace and getting extruded. If this faulty bar stock is used for making the cartridge cases, I can imagine quality problems.

I do not think the cracks in the neck are related to the cracks in the belt & base.

The brass cases are normally annealed from case mouth to below the shoulder. You can see the colour difference in lapua brass for example.

Very old brass and brass that has been fired many times gets hardened and they split like that unless the cases are annealed again.

JMHO

In my problem, Naki, and I'm guessing that of GMyers, the brass was new. Unfired.

So I think you're correct it's a defect as the strip/stock wasn't done right at an early stage and the defect was there from that time.

In my early years I saw hundreds of military cases. Never saw that defect of the neck cracks as pictured.

Necks splits from mouth to start of shoulder in old military brass, usually Eley, where the crack had granular edges but never in Government factory made (R /|\ L Woolwich made) brass.