Hey fellows,I got a set of rcbs 308 FLdies and full length resized some once fired brass,checked length with gauge,everything fine.loaded up some hornady 130gr.spitzers,My Winchester bolt will chamber rounds but does not want to close.What could be the problem?I tried to trim brass way back and also seated bullet way down but makes no difference.The rounds that would close on the bolt i shot and they fired fine,but alot of them will not let the bolt close.Could there be a problem in the shoulder not resizeing right?i tried to chamber them in the Kimber rifle that they were fired the first time and they fit better than the other/win. rifle but were still very tight.At least the bolt would close but it was still harder than factory rounds.Anyone ever run into this?I ran the shell holder all the way to the bottom of the die,what else can i do? Or is this normal with some chambers?I measured col and it was the same as the book recommened.Iam stumped on this one!will the cartridges be ok to shoot even if i have to force the bolt down or should i pull the bullets and regroup?I loaded the powder charge to the starting load in the hodgedon book,35gr.H4891.The brass is remington and hornady.The rifles are winchester and kimber both crf bolts.something is making the brass tight?Any help would be appreciated!Thanks in advance.

first determine which brass is at fault, the hornady or rem.
If both, are you lubing the inside of the neck? you may be pulling the "sholder" when the expander is pulled back through.
do the bullets seat hard if they do the case could be bulged?
Try A diffrent shell holder the one you used could be a little thick?

Hello,
Noticed that you checked OAL of cartridge and that is OK, but not where the problem appears to be based on your description. It would seem to me that you are not resizing the brass as you should to work in a std. chamber. Most factory chambers are plus or minus a few thousands from a "zero" or match chamber. No, it is not ok to force the round into the chamber by the force of the bolt caming action. Yes it will probably go in, but then you can have a real good time trying to get it open sometimes after shooting!! Not good!!
Beg, borrow, steal (joking) a Stoney Point Chamber measuring kit, or a Mose Gauge or a RCBS CaseMaster which will provide you with a actual number/value of the length of the brass from the datum line on the shoulder (half way or middle) to the rear of case and then you set you resizing die accordingly giving couple or three thousands play from the reading. That will let you close bolt easily, and yet not stretch brass and shorten life of brass. Yes, it is possible that the dies are not correct, but that is more like the pilot not believing his gauges in a thunder storm. Those instructions that come with dies are very misleading sometimes and not the best way to set up your reloading press. Get some real facts/measurements of your chamber and resize accordingly and life of brass is better and so is the accuacy of your loads. E mail me if you need more info and will try and help if possible.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

This happens from time to time if you have a minimum chamber in your rifle....

Be sure that you have you die set all the way down to touch the head of the cartridge holder, then if the rounds are still tight, get out the old file and start filing down the cartridge holder so that the case will go a bit deeper into the die..file a little at a time until the cases seat well in the chamber..this usually fixes the problem..

If this doesn't work then send 3 fired factory rounds to RCBS and return your dies and have them make you a set of custom fitted dies..another option may be a set of small base dies for your .308...but I suspect the file will solve the problem and a seater is only about $7.50...

"FL resize or neck only for hunting" page 9 gives some good info about how to set up FL die.I use another method for sizing the case,I adjust the FL sizer( near)1/12 turn before the die makes contact with the shell holder,(probably?)sizing only the body of the case,not touching the shoulder(how the chamber is cut?).PFLR is shoulder bumps .001-.002",FLR is .003"+.Depends on how they cut your chamber,if PFLR orFL sizing dosent work,try mine,if doesnt work,try Ray tips...Do you have concentricity on the case boby...

My Kimber 22-250 has the same problem. I think it is due to the "match" chamber. I had my gunsmith take .010" off the bottom of the die. Now, everything works perfectly. In retrospect, I should have removed .005", but I can go 10 reloads without casehead seperation, so .010" is OK. Most factory ammo headspaces at .010" anyhow.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbearhunter:
Hey fellows,I got a set of rcbs 308 FLdies and full length resized some once fired brass,checked length with gauge,everything fine.loaded up some hornady 130gr.spitzers,My Winchester bolt will chamber rounds but does not want to close.What could be the problem?I tried to trim brass way back and also seated bullet way down but makes no difference.The rounds that would close on the bolt i shot and they fired fine,but alot of them will not let the bolt close.Could there be a problem in the shoulder not resizeing right?i tried to chamber them in the Kimber rifle that they were fired the first time and they fit better than the other/win. rifle but were still very tight.At least the bolt would close but it was still harder than factory rounds.Anyone ever run into this?I ran the shell holder all the way to the bottom of the die,what else can i do? Or is this normal with some chambers?I measured col and it was the same as the book recommened.Iam stumped on this one!will the cartridges be ok to shoot even if i have to force the bolt down or should i pull the bullets and regroup?I loaded the powder charge to the starting load in the hodgedon book,35gr.H4891.The brass is remington and hornady.The rifles are winchester and kimber both crf bolts.something is making the brass tight?Any help would be appreciated!Thanks in advance.

First, what brand is the press? The statement in bold above, needs some more explanation; did you then turn the die 1/8 or 1/4 turn further down after contacting the shell holder? If it's a Lee press, their ram runs up against a positive stop instead of camming over like most others do. With the Lee, you must run the die down a little further until you get some spring in the handle after the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die,(with the shell in the die while re-sizeing.) If you still can't chamber shells easily, THEN take a little metal off the top of your shell holder, or try another shell holder that may be a little thinner.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbearhunter:

I ran the shell holder all the way to the bottom of the die,what else can i do?

When the die resizes the case body it pushes the shoulder forward which will make the cartridge harder to chamber. It is necessary to push the shoulder back which will not be done unless you adjust the die an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn past where the die meets the shell holder as it says in most reloading die instructions.

The way to gauge the exact point where this happens is to have your rifle out while you are resizing. Run the shell holder up to the bottom of the die and then 1/16 turn more. Resize and chamber the case and see if it is tight. Adjust a little at a time until the case becomes easier to chamber. There is a very fine point at which the shoulder begins to get pushed back just a little and there will be a little bit of "crush fit" but less than before. That is partial full length resizing. A little bit more and the case becomes easy to chamber just like factory ammo or new brass. That is full length resizing.

If you ran the shell holder up to the die and then backed it off about a turn, you would not resize the case body, only the neck, and that is neck sizing. The amount of crush fit for neck sized cases depends upon how many times the cases have been reloaded and how heavy a load that was in the previous firing.

That's the way I understand it all now. If I have any misconceptions, I would appreciate any clarifications offered.

Thanks guys for all the help and input.I tried everything under the sun this morning and nothing worked.I even trimmed back the neck way back to make sure that it wasnt to long,nothing made any differance.The case base where the primer is ,is very bright and scratched like the bolt face is rubbing hard on closeing and the bolt face is very clean and bright like it is rubbing bad on the brass.Doesnt this tell me the length is long?It would have to be coming from the shoulder right,if i have trimmed the neck back to ellimanate that being long?I tried some factory loaded rounds and they chambered just fine.The press is a lee.But I ran my die up and down and any other way i could and no cigar.The dies are brand new ,I just bought them 2-days ago.Just looking at the reloaded case beside a factory,the shoulder looks fatter/rounder/not really resized.I went ahead and pulled the bullets,i wont try to shoot anymore of those rounds.I think i fired something like 8 rounds.Accuracy was great but didnt like forceing the rounds,which i want do any more.I only lubed mouth every 5 round or so ,and did get that hard to pull back on the mouth sizer,but this morning i lubed everyone and it made no differance.Iam going to call RCBS tomorrow.my shell holder was #3RCBS which is what they recommend.I have never had such a hassle before like this and have a really bad taste in my mouth on reloading the 308 cartridge.Is the 308 that finicky or is it really a easy round to reload?I had a similar problem when i first started reloading the 30-06 years ago.I tried to just neck size but they would not chamber.I had to full length resize all my brass before they would chamber.....After all this I think i will just scrap the 308 idea and throw in the towel and give up.I hate to be a quitter but dont know what else to do except find another shell holder that is not as thick,but feel like i shouldnt HAVE to do that?It just seems the case is not going up in the resizer die far enough to re size the shoulder.........Damn the Luck!

It's a long shot, but this did happen to me when I first started reloading - I started relaoding with some equipment that was given to me. Took me a while but I finally figured out that the caliper given to me was off. Went and bought a new caliper and got past that problem. Another mistake I made was not running my bullet seating die back off the shell holder far enough and it was crimping the bullets. This was on bullets that didn't have a crimping groove and created a bulge at the neck/bullet intersection that would not let me chamber the rounds.

Couple of long shots but check it out.

Make sure your bullet seating die is not contacting the end of the case as you seat a bullet.

I have made this error in the past. When setting up your seating die. srew it down on a resized case with the press ram all the way up. Screw it down until it contacts the end of the case and them back it off 1/2 turn.

If the die makes contact with the end of the case when seating bullets, it can slightly bulge the case @ the shoulder area.

As I said, this did happen to me once. It was with an "Ackley Improved" case. Maybe the 40* shoulder aggrevated the problem, but it's worth a shot in any case.

blackbearhunter
The 308 is very easy to reload. To find the problem, one thing at a time needs to be tried. First try sizing the case. Then with no primer or bullet in the case, try the fired case in the rifle it was fired in and see if it will chamber. If it chambers, try it in the winchester and see if it will chamber. If either one fails then the sizing is the problem of course. If it is the sizing, try coloring the case with a felt tip marker, then resize the case and see if the die is touching all of the case. Just one thing to try, hope it works.
Glenn

Try to chamber some resized cases before you seat any bullets into them.

If they chamber OK then I would think that the problem lies with your seating die or more likely the set up of same.

The .308 is one of the easiest rounds to reload unless you run into your problem of course. Call lee and send the dies to them. I knew a fellow who had simular problems and they sent him a new die and it solved the problem.

Thanks guys,i fired all the primers and will start from scratch again.i give it another try before giving up,I hate to think a little 308 brass whipped me!with the bullet pulled they /most seemed to chamber much easier.I will keep everyone posted on the results.

IF you are not buckling the cases when you crimp the bullet it kinda goes back to one thing. The Kimber has a "long" chamber, and the Winchester has a "short" chamber.

I would start by sizing all cases as short as my shell houlder/dies will allow. I would then test chamber every one in the Winchester and then separate them for use in each gun.

It may just pay to buy 100 new cases for the Winchester and keep them sized to minimum.

Victory!!YIPPIE!!!Thanks everyone for walking me thru this problem.I got the 308 cases feeding slick as butter in both rifles now!!!
I resized the brass as normal,but this time i lubed the inside neck everytime.I checked the seating die and it was backed out a little bit,so what i did I backed it out plenty,so i would know there would be no-way the crimp was getting to it,then i ran my seating die stem down as far as it would go to get my col length.The dummy rounds were just like the tight ones except a few thousands lesser in diameter at the neck!Somehow the neck was getting jammed/maybe crimped and bulgeing just enough to make the case tight.If i had crimped the bullet and jammed it,do you think my pressure was off the chart when i fired those rounds?Nothing cracked or split or anything,no crater primer or anything.maybe i didnt put to much strain on my poor little rifles.Anyway i can see daylight at the end of the tunnel and i would never have gotten thru this reloading problem without your Time, trouble ,&help!You guys are the greatest!!!!!!!
Will i go thru this all over when i start to load for the 375H&H and the 7mm magnum and want to crimp the rounds?Anyway iam so glad its figured out,its been a learning experiance for sure!Thanks again everyone!

bbh
On this one the pressure shouldn't have changed any or very little. It would be the same with a long shoulder, hard on the rifle to get the shell in the chamber but no difference in pressure when fired.
Glenn

That makes me feel better,i was worried i might have stressed out my rifles or something bad.Iam glad to be back in the game again,i will have to watch that crimp!I hate to be a rookie,but if you want to run with the big dogs,you have to git off the porch!Thanks!

I ran into the same problem with a friends Browning BLR 358 Win. He and the smith blamed my loads. Even a small base die didn't work.Finaly I convinced them to check the headspace, lo and behold it wouldn't close on the go gage. This was a new factory rifle. A little deepening of the chamber solved the problem.
Lyle