Hi all,
I own two CZ527 chambered in the .222 rem, and would like to reload for one of them to duplicate .22 Hornet velocities.
Unfortunatly Hogdon 4895 is not an option here for me, but Vihtavuori powders are.
Have read somewhere of a guy using the VV cowboy action Tin Star N32C to reduce a 22/250 to 2000 fps (62 gr bullet).
Would Tin Star be an option for me, anyone done it ? If so where do I start with bullet weight/ starting load ? Can I expect good accuracy ?
Any advice welcomed
Paulux

You can many of the pistol powders for this.

Almost anything around the burning rate of Green Dot, Red Dot will do.

Is Trail Boss available in your neighborhood ?

No unfortunatly it isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You can many of the pistol powders for this.

Almost anything around the burning rate of Green Dot, Red Dot will do.

According to the Hornady reloading book, Viht N-320 is close to Green Dot. Where can I start from there ?

What pistol powders do you have available?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What pistol powders do you have available?

Reload Swiss, Vectan and Vihtavuori powders. I'm in France.

I don't know much about Vectan powders, but comparing figures given by Reload Swiss and Vihtavuori, Vihtavuori seem to have the bulkiest powders, starting with Tin Star N32C (420 g/l 3050 J/g), followed by N320 (550 g/l 4100 J/g) and N310 (560 g/l 4100 J/g).

I suggest something a bit slower, like V340 should give you what you want.

I am saying this as it seems close to Herco, we use quite a bit,as well Unique.

Thanks Saeed. What starting loads do you use with these powders with 40 to 50 grains bullets ?

I suggest you might start with 6 grains and check the velocity.

You can work up or down as you wish.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I suggest you might start with 6 grains and check the velocity.

I've calculated 6 grains of Viht N340 would fill a .222 case at approx 37% of it's capacity. Is that fine, and compatible with accuracy ?

quote:

Originally posted by paulux:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I suggest you might start with 6 grains and check the velocity.

I've calculated 6 grains of Viht N340 would fill a .222 case at approx 37% of it's capacity. Is that fine, and compatible with accuracy ?

We have never used any sort of formula, we just loaded a few rounds and tried them.

If they meet our requirements, fine, if not, we adjust the loads or change powders.

I have never used VVN pistol powders for reduced loads, as we do not have them.

But, have tried powders in the same range from other manufacturers, and all worked.

Seeing that N340 is right in the middle of the burning rates, if we had it, would have used it.

We have had no problems with ignition with low density loads in small cases at all.

Only time we use a filler is if we are loading reduced loads for something like the 460 Weatherby or 577 T.Rex.

In these we have used several fillers.

Tissue paper, Kapok and the powder used as a filler in magnum shotgun loads.

Again, all worked just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by paulux:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What pistol powders do you have available?

Reload Swiss, Vectan and Vihtavuori powders. I'm in France.

Vectan AS powder has a burn rate the same as Red Dot. I use AS for light cast loads in my 404J and also for trap and field loads in 12G shotgun. It is an exceptionally clean burning powder, the best I have ever used bar none. Somewhere on an official website for Vectan powders I saw that Vectan AS is suitable for reduced rifle loads.

Thanks for your detailed answer Saeed, very helpful.

[/QUOTE]

Vectan AS powder has a burn rate the same as Red Dot. I use AS for light cast loads in my 404J and also for trap and field loads in 12G shotgun. It is an exceptionally clean burning powder, the best I have ever used bar none. Somewhere on an official website for Vectan powders I saw that Vectan AS is suitable for reduced rifle loads.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that Eagle27. I have just had a look at the Vectan official website, and have not found anything about their AS and reduced rifle loads. But they actually give reduced loads for the .222, .308 and 7x64 using their A0 powder. For the .222 it produces the velocities I'm looking for, so that would be a good option.

quote:

Originally posted by paulux:
Thanks for your detailed answer Saeed, very helpful.

Vectan AS powder has a burn rate the same as Red Dot. I use AS for light cast loads in my 404J and also for trap and field loads in 12G shotgun. It is an exceptionally clean burning powder, the best I have ever used bar none. Somewhere on an official website for Vectan powders I saw that Vectan AS is suitable for reduced rifle loads.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that Eagle27. I have just had a look at the Vectan official website, and have not found anything about their AS and reduced rifle loads. But they actually give reduced loads for the .222, .308 and 7x64 using their A0 powder. For the .222 it produces the velocities I'm looking for, so that would be a good option.[/QUOTE]

No I never saw any actual data for reduced rifle loads but it was mentioned in relation to AS. Officially the statement is "VECTAN A24, AS, A1, A0 Single base flake powders with color identification, intended for handgun use and some rifle applications.

Your AO powder is equivalent to Herco and 800X, bit slower than its siblings A1 and AS.

Thanks Eagle27.
An advantage of those Vectan A powders here in France is that they are quite a bit cheaper than the Vihtavuori and Reload Swiss ones.

Looks like a start load of rs60 gives you .22 hornet velosity.

quote:

Reload Swiss

222 Rem.
50
Sierra
SBT
RWS
SR RWS 4033
RS60
20,5
601
1262
26,2
854
2781
600mm (1:14")

You're right Nordic2. Interesting option too as the RS60 can also be used to reload the 6.5x55 which I also have.

Back on this thread after some load development to share my findings.

In the end I tried Vectan pistol powder A0 with 45 gr Speer soft points (# 1023) and found exactly what I was looking for : 7,8 grains give a MV of 670 m/s (2200 fps), good accuracy and the sound level of a 22 Hornet (through a 60 cm barrel).

What has also been very satisfying is that with the same rifle and bullet, I also developt a faster load using Viht N135, getting an MV of 920 m/s (3020 fps) and a POI at 100 m exactly 2,5 cm above the slower load.

So with the POIs of the slower and faster load set respectively at 1 cm and 3,5 cm above the point of aim, I've been able to hunt fox this summer with the one rifle and the two loads. The slower and quieter « 22 Hornet » rounds for shots up to approx 110 m, and the hotter 222 rounds for shots further away. (I've marked the case bases of the hot loads with a red marker to recognize them)

I've noticed the POI of the fast load is the same as factory Norma 62 gr SP ammo also accurate in that rifle, so I could also hunt roe deer with that set up.

For those interested in the topic, I was also inspired for my choices by this article : http://www.jamescalhoon.com/bee.php

The icing on the cake for me is that the burnt A0 powder has a delicious smell of shotgun powder that reminds me of my small game hunts with a ,410 !

N-110 is also a viable option.
I'd bet about 10 or 11 grs will get you in the ball park too.

PM ME I will run a simulation for you

Thanks POP for your offer.

See also : https://www.24hourcampfire.com...php/topics/5703236/1

Found that internet page very interesting with some more recipes for reduced 223 loads, using Blue Dot powder.

I made som .22 hornet'ish loads for my .22-250 with 40 grs bullets. I mostly used Lovex S035 for this. This powder I have also used in 7x57R for a 78 grs Sako bullet. Both work very well. But do NOT trust simulator for powders that are way of its normal use. I see you are in france, so Lovex should be available. Also Vithavuori N32C is brilliant for this use.

I shoot the 222 Rem almost exclusively, and played with sub loads at one time, but never could get them to shoot up to expectations in my L46 Sako or 600 Rem. I ran across a Win lever action in 22 magnum at a gun show at a cheap price, (well used) and it shoots great and is about what your looking for..Its my turkey gun, I also found a junker Rem 5MM, and I mean a junker, only it shoots dime size groups at 100 yards, so its found a home. Just some options if anyone is interested...