Hello all!

I have an, old, set of L E Wilson dies for the 270 Winchester that I got off eBay.

These are the old type L E Wilson FULL LENGTH SIZE DIE and the BULLET SEATER DIE.

To confirm it is the old FULL LENGTH Wilson sizer that I have and not the modern one that neck sizes only and that is then turned upside down to de-cap and eject the processed case.

So re-sizing is...slow! And it doesn't de-cap either!

Both are in good order and I have an old industrial arbor press.

But I also have an RCBS press and, with it, the standard 7/4x14 tpi standard two die FL RCBS 270 Winchester dies.

Am I correct to assume that to save time, and for all practical results I will get no appreciable loss of accuracy if in fact I do a "double shuffle"?

That is re-size, neck-expand and de-cap in the standard RCBS die in the RCBS press and THEN after re-capping and powder charging etc., etc., use the WILSON BULLET SEATER DIE in my arbor press?

So in other words use ONLY the Wilson bullet seating die (after sizing etc., etc., is done in the RCBS press with the standard RCBS sizing die).

Any input is welcome. I am not bench resting, just a standard hunting rifle.

But I do feel that the full length support to the bullet offered by the Wilson die might give superior results to just seating with the RCBS die?

And that no real benefit, for hunting purposes, actually is given by also using, beforehand, the Wilson FL sizing die?

Comments, advice and your experience please gentlemen...

I'm no expert, but you would be using two different dies anyway even if you used the set. I have two dies sets for my 280. One Redding and one RCBS. The seating dies of each is set up for a different bullet. I use the Redding to size all cases regardless of which bullet I am loading. I wondered if it made a difference myself and set both seaters the same. No difference in accuracy that I could tell in 10 or so shots.

Enfield Spares -

What you describe is a very good use of the two dies sets for most reloading.


What you anticipate doing will be very parallel to using a full length sizer or neck sizer of any brand, and a Vickerman bullet seater. It will work just great.

Enfieldspares,
I use that identical setup for any rifle for which I can find the Wilson seater or it's equivalent.
I have seaters for .222 R, 6mm Rem, 25-06, 7mm Rem Mag., 30-06 and for the old bench rest round the 6X47 Rem.

Some day you should treat yourself to a Wilson neck bushing die in your favorite varmit round.
It requires no lube, no press, no huge bench or pile of other stuff.
You can load with just a plastic faced hammer and a small press. Check out the small presses used for that purpose too.

You can get it touch with Wilson and order a de-capping base and de-capping rod for your Wilson setup. I think that Wilson dies do a good job but you will have to really champher (sp?)the inside case neck as there is no expander ball with the Wilson dies unless you are using boat-tail bullets. Good luck.

Thank you ALL for your input. It has been most helpful.

I had the idea of this from seeing the Harrell Press that uses a screw-in sizer but a Wilson seater die and from that wanted input as to of it was a valid concept.

Many thanks and topic closed...until I do some tests and then I'll let you know. Won't be until August however.

By your post heading, I thought L. E. Wilson had put his cue in the rack. I've never heard of the brand, though, and by the trouble you've had am not surprised if it at least has gone for a Burton's.

In reverse order:

"And that no real benefit, for hunting purposes, actually is given by also using, beforehand, the Wilson FL sizing die."

Correct. Wilson type hand dies offer no benefit to standard factory rifles, that's why we use theaded dies in threaded presses.


"But I do feel that the full length support to the bullet offered by the Wilson die might give superior results to just seating with the RCBS die?"

True. But the difference is (usually) quite small so it's unlikely it will matter to your accuracy. A LOT more must go into preparing BR competition level ammo than simply using BR type dies and little or none of it means a thing to factory sporters.

I suggest you put your very nice Wilson dies in a display case and use your conventional dies and press.

The best part of Wilson dies are the neck bushing dies...The original no lube neck die.

It only took the major companies 50 years to put a bushing in a 7/8-14 die and triple the price.

Jim C

If you never try all the little tricks with your rifles how do you know how much difference it makes?

quote:

Jim C - If you never try all the little tricks with your rifles how do you know how much difference it makes?

Who said "never"?

Seems you totally miss my point to the OP. I get frustrated when old hands ignore a new guy's real needs and promote tools and methods that are totally different from his real needs and far beyond his skill level but common sense on the web is an uncommon quality. It would seem a real web guru would use his knowledge to actually help others rather than use the web to demonstrate vast knowledge at the expense of confusing new loaders ever more than they already are.

I always encourage experienced guys try anything that interests them. But, unlike a lot of old hands who love to post all the variations and tools that interest themselves (such as bushing dies), I DON'T reccommend new guys to bother with all the esotoric trivia of reloading because it just isn't helpful to them. When new guys have become old guys they will know it and won't need our encouragement to experiment. A whole lot of people never have any need or interest in such minituia as hand dies at all. But, if they do, THEN is the time to discuss it, not at first.

There's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. IMHO, it should be clear the OP has no current need for his nice Wilson dies, they offer unneeded complexity to an already puzzling process. The OP cannot possibly benefit from the Wilson's use and won't for a long time, if ever. After he learns to use basic dies and asks for help with the Wilsons I'll be among the first to offer it. But not now. And THAT'S my point.

Endfield spare is not a new guy. I think he is only new to you and Wilson tools. And I didn't go out of my way to tell him I think the Wilson FL die is nearly worthless. He will find that out quickly on his own.
On the other hand Wilson dies do not introduce any complexity to loading. They actually make it more simple. There is nothing simpler than loading with a Wilson neck die and a Wilson seater. That is my point. The Wilson tools are actually simpler to use than Richard Lee's "one tool" does both job hand tool.
They are actually easier and simpler to use than the 7/8 -14 dies used in a press. Most newbie issues have to do with case sizing and lubing.

quote:

Endfield spare is not a new guy.

Perhaps you're right. I just presume that anyone asking basic questions must be 'new', at least in the sense I meant it.

I guess in part it depends on just how old the Wilson dies are which Enfield Spares is using...

Sam Wilson's original dies were not bushing dies. They were FL dies available ONLY in hammer (or arbor press")style. I have several sets of them, which I bought new about 60+ years ago.

For a person loading cartridges such as the .303 British, they have a least one feature which is a real advantage sometimes. The cartridge case, including the rim, goes all the way into the die. That makes it possible to size cases ALL THE WAY to the rim. With swollen cases from some rear locking-lugged actions that can be a very positive plus.

They are also very useful for one who is loading somewhere without a threaded press available, but who wants to (or needs to) FL resize.

That doesn't seem to be very common anymore, but it can still be the situation at the odd time.

They are also handy for someone who because of economics or some other factor, wants to reload range pick-up brass from machine guns or some other firearm where the brass is swollen to the point it really, really needs an in-line total length re-size clear to the rim.

Ditto, if a person wants to re-shape larger donor brass into something he can use.

I don't know what is going to happen to shooting and ammo availability in the next ten years, but there may well come a time when those original Wilson-style die sets will be very handy to own or borrow.

Hello, enfieldspares. In loading for a .22 Hornet and .222Rem., I use Redding bushing type neck sizing dies. For bullet seating, I like the Wilson chamber type seaters. I purchased micrometer adjustable tops for both from Sinclair Int. I find I do not need an arbor type press for these smaller calibers..only pressure from heel of hand seats them fine. With match bullets, I am able to group in .3"s at 100yds with the hornet. Best of luck!

Again thank you to all for the input.

I am definitely not new to reloading, have been doing it for thirty plus years, and have seen and used most things from Lyman 310, to Star Progressive.

I have however never used Wilson dies as they are still uncommon in this country, Great Britain, and those that are seem confined to bench rest shooters.

However as I shoot 270 Winchester and these items were cheap on eBay was interested in other's experiences of them.

A lot of the pleasure of reloading is that challenge to see if new techniques, or old techniques, in the owner's rifle can give better performance.

Here in Great Britain we really only see standard 7/8 x 14 die sets and, apart from the old Lee Loader any "straight line" bullet seater is rare.

As well made as RCBS dies are I still think that they are not the optimum for ensuring true straight line bullet seating.

Thus the original post. Asking if I really would see any benefit in using the Wilson FL Sizer as well was the Wilson Seater.

Or if, in fact, most if not all of the benefit is obtained by using the Wilson Seater only and sticking with the standard RCBS FL 7/8 x 14 Sizer Die.

As SR4759 says I find that the Wilson Seater Die less "fiddly" that trying to hold the flat base 150 grain Speer Hot Cor bullets I use in my 270 in place when I seat in my Australian made Simplex Rockchucker "clone".

Albert Canuck makes an interesting point and certainly I have, maybe every fourth or fifth reload, re-sized my 270 cases in a RCBS Small Base FL Die.

And it does certainly restore the area where the "web" starts to the same diameter as the case head.

enfieldspares
I don't know if you got instructions for use of the seater but here goes..

Do not pull the seater punch out of the die body to drop the bullets in. The tolerances are so close that you will have a tedious time aligning the punch without eventually dinging up the die top. Instead insert the bullet from the bottom followed by the charged case to push the punch up until the case is in place. Then place the die body and case on a smooth, hard surface and seat the bullet.

One other benefit of the Wilson type tools is you can make them yourself.
There was once a 6X47 Rem benchrest wildcat that used the .222 Rem Mag case. Since it is deader than the dodo the home made loading tools turn up from time to time. Some of them are of the highest quality workmanship. And they are cheap. Out of curiosity I have a little collection of them.

As you say, that's just what I do, slip the die with its seater over the assembled round.

Didn't know that at first, but a look at the Wilson website, ad others such as yourself who are kind enough to share your knowledge, put me right!