The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading revisiting an old subject... 30-06 powdersGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
I am just starting my first "work up a load from scratch" endeavor for my dad's old Mauser 30-06 sporter... it doesn't seem to like the 165s we've been shooting through it and the barrel was allegedly a military piece, so IIRC it used 147gr bullets in that format. so, I'm working with some high-dollar (Hornady GMX this time) 150s. the barrel has a VERY light contour and is only 21" IIRC. so, any ideas? I have cans of 4064 and 4831 (which is what grandpa used, he "made"the gun 50-some years ago). am reluctant to get too broad in my search since I can't source primers right now and am down to less than 100... ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | ||
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| One of Us |
With a 150, and 4064, it wouldn't suprise me if you found a good load somewhere right around the 52-53 grain range. This is a load I have seen work in several rifles. Work up and check pressures, but it shouldn't be too hot. | |||
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| One of Us |
Your 4064 should work great for the 150g Your 4831 should work great for a 180g If I were you, I would buy some cheaper Horn 150g for load work up. They also hold together at "standard" 06 vels. For the 150g, I load 57.5/Imr4350 For the 180g, I load 58/Imr 4831 They shoot to the same poi and are fast out of a 26 in tube--TOO fast for standard cup/core bullets. | |||
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| One of Us |
The 165's should like 4350. ________________________ "Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre | |||
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| one of us |
thanks guys, will take it all under advisement... my concern with starting with cheap bullets is that I'll have to do it all over again when he wants to go Elk hunting... hence the pricey 150s... money isn't the real issue here, he'll keep buying GMXs or whatever I ask him to get, getting the right load IS. and I only have 75 primers to get it done. ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| One of Us |
This is a pretty good post. | |||
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| one of us |
thanks again guys... I'll start with the 4064 and see how that works before committing to the 4831... ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| One of Us |
Due to it's military heritage most 30-06 have a fairly long throat. Try flat base bullets for best results when using the light ones. | |||
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| one of us |
^^^^ what is the rationale for that? I'm a bit of a noob on some of this stuff. ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| one of us |
The Hornady GMX and similar monometal (copper) bullets are made for people who are forced to hunt with non-lead bullets due to regional restrictions ("buzzard conservation"). Assuming you do not intend to hunt in such a restricted area, leave the $$$ bullets on the shelf and get some appropriate conventional lead core 180 grain bullets for elk hunting. A case full of H4831 under such a 180 grainer will likely do well, even in your abbreviated barrel. Seat the bullet out as far as your magazine will allow, so long as it is just short of engaging the lands. | |||
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| one of us |
someone want to re-educate me on the easy way to check the contact with the lands? I know I read it somewhere, but can't recall the source. ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| One of Us |
The easy way w/o tools. Take an empty 06 case(preferably fired in this rifle) and partially--maybe 1/4 inch--neck size the case. Seat a bullet much longer than one of your loaded rounds. Take a marks-a-lot and color the bullet. Carefully try and chamber the round. If it will NOT chamber, seat the bullet a little deeper. Try again. Take measurements of the col. Continue seating the bullet deeper until the cartridge will chamber. Re marks-a-lot the bullet, chamber and then open the action. You should be able to see where the bullet is touching the lands/rifling. Measure col. This is your MAX col w/ this particular bullet. Then seat the loaded bullets .10-.20 DEEPER. Some mag boxes are too short for this to work and you may have to seat the bullets even deeper. I generally keep a dummy round for each PARTICULAR bullet I shoot in each cartridge for each specific rifle. This keeps you from having to go thru this process every time you load for a particular rifle w/ a particular bullet. | |||
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| one of us |
that's EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks. ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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one of us |
That's a good method. Another is to take a hack saw and split the neck to the shoulder vertically. Pinch it a bit and insert a bullet, then chamber it. Pull it out and measure OAL. The bullet will self-seat from the lands. Be sure to insert the rim under the extractor and guide the round into the chamber so the reading is true. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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| one of us |
thanks again... ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| one of us |
I think aliveincc went a decimal point too far there. It is only necessary to back off from the lands by .01-.02". So long as you clear the lands, your load is fine. It is true that some combinations of bullet/powder shoot better (more accurately) when seated deeper, but this is a slightly different subject. | |||
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| one of us |
maybe he was workign in MM??? ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| One of Us |
With a light short bullet and especially one with a boat tail the bearing surface is short. With a chamber with a long throat the bullet may be nearly completely out of the neck or will be completely out of the neck before it contact the origin of the rifling. This is not desirable for best accuracy. | |||
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| One of Us |
Dark helmet, Both stonecreek and SR4759 are correct.You only need to be off the lands a small distance, but you may not be able to seat the bullets long enough to get there. You will only know when you load a specific bullet for a specific rifle. I try to load them as long as the lands, bullet & mag box combination will allow. Sometimes a rifle will like them shorter. It's part of tailoring a specific load to a specific rifle. Go slow and good luck w/ it. | |||
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One of Us |
DH, One thing you might want to look at is how well the Hornady GMX expands at lower velocities. The stuff on the webpage & printed materials make me think that below 2700 fps, the bullet expands not very much at all. Get 150 or 200 yards downrange, and your dad might have bullet making a pretty small hole. He might be better off with a partition or A-frame or barnes (perhaps the tipped barnes). I think that would be my first concern. best wishes, friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Me thinks the friar makes a good point. | |||
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| One of Us |
IMO reloading for the 30-06 begins and ends with 4350.  but since you don't have any, 4831 makes a poor second. | |||
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| One of Us |
imr 4831,nosler solid base 5 shots from my sako finnbear 06 in less 7/16 inch at 100 yards.I also load imr 4895 with 165gr nosler ballistic tips(data from NRA American Rifleman 3/86 Reloading for The M1 Rifle very accurate in my sako 06 and m1 garand. | |||
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| One of Us |
I use IMR 4064- 150gr. 52gr and for 180gr 48gr. Have shot whitetail, muledeer,antelope, elk with these. Not real fast but accurate. | |||
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| one of us |
::starts trying to find the tipped Barnes:: ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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| One of Us |
I think friar got some bad info. Hornady's new PCB is designed to compete w/ the E-tip and Barnes so they can satisfy the politically motivated fraud that's being thrust upon us as shooters. Lower velocity limit 2100 fps, maybe. If an 06 bullet won't expand below 2700 fps, it's not going to function as an expanding bullet very often. One of the AR members tested the PCB GMX earlier this year and posted pictures. VERY nice and similar expansion b/w the bullets. I would just buy(in fact did buy 958 from an AR member) some LEAD containing partitions and call it good. | |||
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| One of Us |
In the words of Jack O'Connor: "If a 30-06 rifle won't shoot some 165grain bullet in front of 48grains of IMR4064 consult an exorcist not a gunsmith" OR words closely to that effect... Personally I believe that if you have a 30-06 and a 165grain bullet won't get the job done you don't need a heavier bullet or a bigger 30caliber cartridge to launch it from, what you need is a 338mag (or larger) AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Dark, you want to know which powder is best for the '06 just go to the "30-06 pressure info (lots) Page 1 2" - that is, the thread above. You'll find that Norma MRP is just about ideal. I've used it and it's spectacular in accuracy and performance. Regards, AIU | |||
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Guys, I'm not familiar with a Hornady bullet desginated "PCB." I can't find anything on their website or their printed material to that effect. Am I overlooking it somewhere? From the website & printed material, the pictures they show of the GMX show about 2x expansion at 2700 fps (it might be only 1 3/4 x??). In the picture they show for 2200 fps, the tip is barely opened, and expansion doesn't appear to be greater than the existing bullet diameter. I suppose the question really is, how far out before that 150 gr. 30-06 bullet slows down to 2400 - 2200 fps?? Best wishes, friar p.s. sorry about hijacking the thread. Maybe we should start a new one. Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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| One of Us |
"PCB" means politically correct bullet and is slang for lead free bullets etc. No one makes a bullet called a "PCB" bullet . | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks RT...hopefully I'm not as dense writing my sermon as I am with simple acronymns!  Many thanks, friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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| one of us |
thanks again friar.... I'm working on all of that right now. the Barnes TSX seems to have good terminal ballistics down to 2100 or so based on their materials, and it is a similar bullet in design to the GMX.... and I found out something else that sucks too... I can't even get CLOSE to SAAMI COAL... the magazine limits me to 3.33/3.29... so getting right up to the lands seems HIGHLY unlikely. however, I did get some GOOD news... somewhere along the line I'd botched the barrel measurement... it IS a 24" barrel... so I won't be dropping as much velocity as I had feared. ______________________________________________________________________________ When people refer to a rifle as "ugly," what they are really saying is "push-feed." | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading revisiting an old subject... 30-06 powders
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