My worst experience (that had a happy ending) was a sporter weight 7x57 I had barreled a while back. I went through 7 different bullet, 6 different powders, and almost 500 rounds before I got a load that shot well. Moreover, most every load I tried was at best 1.5 MOA, but usually worse. The 145 gr Win factory load would shoot 7 inch, 3-shot groups at 100 yds!!!

The saving grace was RE15 and Nosler's 150 BT, resulting 3-shot 0.6 MOA. H4831SC coming in a close second with the same bullet. I was just about to give up and rebarrel when I tried these loads...

What are all y'alls experiences?

I dreamed up a .224" wildcat back in the 80's. The idea was to have a .224" bore shoot varmint bullets but also a heavy game bullet. I found a guy out West who made me some 88 gr partitions for the big game bullet.

The case is made from 6.5 Rem Mag brass or 7mm RM's. It requires two form dies and then a third die thats a form and neck reaming combination die.

Since there is no loading data for this turkey I must work up all loads. For some reason the only bullet that shoots really well is the 60 gr Sierra HP. The 69 gr MK shoots well also but does not open enough for me on varmints.

All I have left is two part filled boxes of brass. I really don't want to make more. It's such a pain. Of course it was fun at first but now it's old. So there you have it. I spent hundreds of dollars on custom dies and a reamer. What the heck it's good clean fun.

I have two. A T/C Contender Carbine in 30-30 that made me twitch for several years. It has a bad chamber cut and I've found no satisfaction with T/C in resolving the matter. It is suitable for still hunting however which is what I do with it. Cheap education I suppose and it led me to learn a lot about reloading. I get to use brass about 3 times before it has to be discarded.

Number two is a Ruger #1 in .22 K-Hornet. I use Li'l Gun and that was another learning process. First gun I've owned that absolutely requires perfection in all regards, at least something very close to it. When I finally figured it out I got a really big warm fuzzy feeling. Shoots in the 7's like clockwork. It makes me want to go find another screwball gun to work on, just so's I won't be bored.

My other rifles are boring for the most part. It did take me a little while to figure out that Ruger thinks Bob is a varmint cartridge first and foremost. Another #1 wouldn't shoot 120's worth a toot but is scary with the 75 VMAX and 85 BT's. Well, everybody needs something for prairie country amusement.

My worst was with my cz .22 hornet...eventually I got it worked out with a change in primers of all things !!

The .25-06 was a real "bitch" to get to perform to my wishes!

It took me almost 6 years to finally find a load that would shoot a 5-shot group at 100-yards of less than 1/2-inch!

The Ruger 77, out of the box was miserable. Probably the worst rifle I had ever purchased. The trigger was way too heavy, at around 10 pounds, the creep and backlash was extremely excessive.

I did my usual "Ruger Trigger Tune-Up". After careful application of files, emery paper, polishing compound and Colgate toothpaste I finally managed to get the trigger down to around 2-1/2 pounds, with absolutely no creep and no backlash. A trigger this light and sensitive is not generally advisable on a hunting rifle, however, that is where I set all my rifles for working up a load. There is enough adjustment on the Ruger trigger to bring it up to around 4 pounds, which is much more safe for a big-bore rifle used for hunting purposes.

As usual I wanted to use Remington brass, Remington primers and the fantastic Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets. So I purchased 1,000 pieces of Remington Brass all of the same lot number, and 3,000 of the Sierra bullets, again of the same lot number. I loaded 150 cases with around 37 grains of IMR-3031, and used these loads to fireform the brass, and to lap and break-in the barrel.

After I fireform my cases I only neck size them just enough to firmly hold the bullet, which usually only resizes about half the neck.

Then I started selecting powders...first I loaded some IMR-3031, in 0.3 grain increments from 37.0 grains to 43.0 grains. Results were lousy!

Next powder selection was IMR-4064 from 39.0 grains to 45.0 grains. Results were lousy!

I broke open a canister of IMR-4350 and loaded from 44.0 grains to 51.0 grains. Results were not that great...

I then tried H-450 from 49.0 grains to 54.0 grains. Results were lousy!

H-380 (what the hell, I had a ton of it...) from 39.0 grains to 44.0 grains. Results sucked!

I went back to IMR powders, this time 4320, and loaded from 39.0 grains to 45.0 grains. Same-o, same-o!

Next in line was IMR 4831, from 43.0 grains to 53.0 grains. Disgusting!

With all these powders, and all these loads, the 5-shot groups ran from 3 inches to, would you believe, 7-1/2 inches!

I was beside myself! I figured I would try one more powder, H-4831, so I loaded from 44.5 grains to 55.0 grains. WHAT? All the groups with this powder, regardless of the load, ran between 2 and 2-1/2 inches! I was amazed!!

To see if this was a fluke, I ran those loads again, and received the same results. So it looked like H-4831 was the powder of choice.

My next step was to take the most accurate load and start playing with seating depth, varying .001 inch down to .01 inch under my measured "ideal" overall length. (The way I find "ideal" overall length is to carbon up a bullet, semi-firmly set it way out in the case, and then gently close the action of the rifle. I want the bullet just touching the rifling...no free-bore for me!

Well, it turned out that my "ideal" length was the most accurate, but I still only got groups of 2 inches at 100 yards...4 times larger than my requirements.

I had just finished loading some .257 Roberts for a friend, and he specified the Nosler 120 grain bullets for his loads, so I had a bunch of them laying around. I decided to see what would happen with them. Was I ever surprised when the group sizes dropped to 1-1/2 inches! (I'm not a Nosler fanatic...) But, a 25% improvement was worth noting.

Still not satisfied with a 1-1/2 inch, 5-shot group at 100 yards, I started working on the bedding of the Ruger. I did what I have done to every other Ruger 77 that I have ever owned. I sanded off that damn knob at the end of the forearm! And free-floated the entire barrel from the front of the receiver to the end of the forearm, enough to fit 3 thick business cards all the way down without touching metal and wood.

Groups dropped to 1-inch!

Still not satisfied, I decided that I would try different primers...first Remington large magnum rifle...groups flew all to hell!

Next Federal regular and magnum...a total disaster!

CCI weren't any better, regardless of regular or magnum.

I had a thousand or two of the Winchester WLR primers, and before I used the rifle for a crowbar I decided that I had tried everything else, so why not them?

HOT-DAMN!!! Groups dropped to 0.489 inches instantly! And they stayed there!

I loaded a bunch more, using the Nosler bullets, the Winchester primers, Remington brass, and 53.3 grains of H-4831. Groups continually ran between 0.357 and 0.489, for 5-shots at 200 yards...

I had found my load...but it wasn't with the Sierra bullet...AND I WANTED TO USE THAT SIERRA BULLET!

I loaded some more cases with the Winchester primers and again used H-4831 powder, loading in 0.1 grain increments from 52.3 to 54.3 grains...stuck the Sierra bullet on top.

At 52.5 grains the .25-06 started printing 5-shot, 200 yard groups of between .258 and .308 inches!

Being kinda partial to IMR-4350, I decided that I wanted to try that powder once again...this time with the free-floated barrel and the Winchester primers, and naturally the Sierra bullet. I found that 47.7 grains of IMR-4350 gave the exact same velocities, and accuracy as the H-4831 loads! I was impressed!

After several hunting trips, and many, many one-shot kills, that load with the Sierra bullet is my favorite .25-06 load. It took 6 years to find it, but I have been using it ever since. As a matter of fact, I made my longest 1-shot kill several years ago on an antelope. The distance was 704 yards...measured by me and two witnesses, FIVE times!

As usual, once I find a load that I like, that is where I stay...generally for life, since I have several thousand bullets, tens-of-thousands of primers, and cases of powder all of the same lot number...and 1000 cases will last a long time...

I don't know how any of these loads will work in your .25-06...but think they are worth a try if you are not totally satisfied with what you are now shooting.

Dear 9.3,
I would say mine was the 260 AAR[6.5x 57AI] I tried all trhe bullets in the usable spectrum I wanted [120 -140] and nothing worked under 3/4". Finally started making the brass from L.C. NM 30-06 cases and changed to CCI 250 primers and the thing FINALLY shot to my standards. Best with the 1298 Hornady which is fine with me. Making the brass is a pain in the a-- but it lasts forever.

Aloha, Mark[In Or]

A Brno ZKW465 in 22 Hornet, very fussy about what it liked and what it didn't. Bedded and floated the barrel and that fixed it to some degree. Factory loads never shot well until I tried recently released AX ammunition, that does okay at 1.25 MOA. Finally stopped chasing high velocities with sharp 40gr Sierras and Vmax 35gr projectiles and settled on a "dumpy" 45gr projectiles at 2650fps. Instant improvement!
Cheers...
Con

I have a Mexican 98 Mauser in 7 x 57 with a 21 inch barrel with both open iron sights and scope mounted with the old Detacho mounts of 25 years ago or so. I love the rifle. It's light, handy, and fits well, but it is the most frustrating rifle I have ever loaded for. That's not to say that I can't get a good group. I can get great groups. I just can't get them repeatedly.

What may shoot 1/2 inch today may shoot 2 inches tomorrow. The barrel appears to by fine, apparently an after market job. The full length glass bedding looks great. I've tried different scopes to no avail. All screws are tight. The trigger is fine. The best load I have is with 175 Hornady round nose with IMR-4064. It only does about 1 1/2 or so but it does it repeatedly. I would prefer to use 140 to say 154 grain bullets.

Once in a while I drag out all my records on this thing and try some newly introduced bullets or powder usually with the same results---nothing. I will say that this rifle has a huge free bore and that may be the heart of the problem.

Any ideas out there?

I'd look hard at the Detacho scope mount.

Does it still have the old 2 stage trigger?

Just a thought.

A Ruger 77/22 Hornet. I tried every load known to man in that rifle. Best I ever got was 2 to 3 inches at 100yds. It now has a new owner, I've got enough gray hairs. IMO anyone who has an accurate Ruger is one lucky fellow, and I've owned more than a few of them.

Mine was a 338-06 made up on a Mauser action. Real nice looking rifle, but wouldn't shoot worth a hoot, 2.5 inch groups with any bullet. Got so frustrated, I pulled the barrel and am now making it a 257 Roberts AI.

Shoot a 35 Whelen!!

Jerry

Had a Yugo 8mm mauser and a Schmidt Rubin that were both fine looking rifles. Problem was, couldn't hit a bull in the a$$ at 50yds. with either! Didn't keep them very long.

Craigster, I had an IDENTICAL experience with the Ruger 77/44Mag. I've concluded the short action Ruger 77 is not capable of accuracy. I've also owned several of these beautiful rifles in .22 Long Rifle as well. None of them would shoot to save their ass either.

How can such beautiful rifles shoot so poorly?

Pecos,

Yup, the rifles Ruger builds are really nice lookin'. I've really liked the looks and feel of all the ones I've owned. But what's the point of havin' a really neat lookin' rifle that won't shoot for shit? Bad raps aren't good for business. How come they don't get it? Bottom line is, money talks. I will have to say that I have a #1 in 218 Bee that is dead nuts accurate out of the box, other than the trigger.

Accurate Rugers? Go to:

http://stevespages.com/targets.html

I have a rem 700 243 win that is particularly fussy. I have found a couple of loads it shoots fantastically, but I have also shot a lot of 1.5-2.5" groups with the rifle in load developement. Oh well, it reminds me of some children's eating habbits. ha

Mine also was a 7x57. Shot hundreds of reloads thru it. I shortened the barrel to 19 inches and bedded it at the forearm tip with black automotive silicon and it is now pretty much a MOA rifle with all my favorite bullets and AA 4350. I blame the RAMLINE stock for most of the problem but shortening the barrel made a great difference.

I purchased a 77/22 Hornet HB on a challenge that I could get it to shoot. I tried just about everything I could think of to get the thing to shoot sub-MOA consistantly. A case full of H4227 lit by a Fed 100 primer would push a 50 gr. PLHP at almost 2800 fps and put 5 into an inch or so at 100 yards. However, it would not feed through the magazine and I wanted a load with a bit more zip. 40 gr. V-max and BT pushed by Lil Gun, 296, H-110, or H4227 punched shotgun patterns. Just when I was about ready to convert it to a 17 AH, I tried the 35 gr. V-max pushed by 2400. BINGO!!! I worked up to 11.3 grains at which point the case is pretty full and it's shooting under 1/2" at 100 yards repeatably and almost to the point it's booring. I uncase the rifle shoot a small group, put it away and turn my attention to one of my other problem children. On the next trip to the range, I fire a couple fouling shots and proceed to shoot another 22 caliber cloverleaf. Yawn.... The LOA is short enough that the rounds even run through the magazine. Now the 35 gr. v-max has the BC of a brick, but it sure shoots through my rifle.

A Tikka in 25/06.

A Browning Safari on a Sako action with pencil barrel in 22/250.

Never succeeded in getting either of these to shoot as well as I wanted, so I eventually gave up on them.

Another tale of 25-06 grief here. Had one that would only give up accuracy with stout loads of H4831 - and only for a few shots before it copper fouled.

It was like a high-maintenance girl friend. Sexy but in the end regrettable.

It got traded in on a 6.5 x 55 and I've lived happliy ever after.

Hey 9.3x62, I agree with all the folks that mentioned the 22Hornet.

I've got about 35 years experience worth of wrestling with them, but all my experience is dated back "before" ultra-lightweight Bullets and Lil'Gun Powder existed. Had those been around when I had my Hornets, then I might have enjoyed them a lot more.

Biggest problem I had was inconsistant accuracy from day to day. One day the best Load would shoot better than 1". Same Load next day might be close to 2". This is with a number of different Hornet rifles over those years.

I even tried my best to blame it on my own shooting technique(at first), but that didn't work. I was able to shoot very small groups with my other rifles and the groups remained consistent during the same time. So, it wasn't too much Tea, lack of sleep or poor concentration doing it. If that was it, it would have shown up on the others as well.

...

The happiest trade I ever made was the day I got rid of my last 22Hornet. I ended up with a 20" S&S 223Rem M7. I can load it to normal 223Rem Velocities, or slow it right on down to 22Hornet speeds. "BUT", the accuracy remains constant from day to day, with any of the Loads. This is using many different brands of Cases, Primers, Powders and Bullets.

7 x 57 for me also. HOwever, once I realized that the rifle was long throated ( a Ruger 77 Mk 2), I seated bullets out and on a fluke tried 3031 powder. The Lyman 47th edition showed like 38 grains with bullet weights from 140 to 175 grains.

So I worked up to 40 grains with a 175 grain Rem SP,

Groups went from 4 and 5 inches at 50 yds to 1/2 inch or less at 100 yds with that load.

I use Rem brass, only because of its availability. However had the same results with PMC brass. It is not primer sensitive. I have 2 Ruger 7 x 57s and both were not shooting anything but the IMR 3031 at 40 grain loads.

I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 7 x 57. That one shoots about anything down the barrel into half inch groups or less at 100 yds. So it is not the cartridge.

But IMR 3031 is my ONLY powder at 40 grains I use in 7 x 57 loads.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

50 Beowulf! Nothing else even comes close to comparing with this. I don't know if I would really consider if fussy though, more like PLAIN SUCKS!


ASS_CLOWN

Craigster,

I wonder if the Ruger's 0.223" bore might have anything to do with it's piss poor accuracy???

ASS_CLOWN