Bought my son a short barreled Ruger .308, 16", for hunting Elk. Was wondering if a faster powder would work better in the short barrel, say IMR 4895 vs H380. Nosler recommends the H380 for 180gr bullets but I suspect thats for a 23 or 24 in barrel. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Paul

The whole faster powders for shorter barrels line is a complete myth. With rifle cartridges 9 times out of 10 the fastest powder for a long bbl will still be the fastest in a carbine. Just look at handgun data vs rifle data for 308 win. With most bullet weights Varget is usually the top performer regardless of bbl length. Be it a 14" ENCORE handgun or a 26" Savage 12fp

All of the powder that is going to burn in a rifle case will do so in the first 3 or 4 inches of barrel.

If you look in the Nosler #4 or 5, they have data for the .308 in 14" (pistol) and 24" (rifle) barrels. The same powders give the highest velocity.

My kid had the Ruger MK-II compact model with 16.5" barrel. IMR-4064, RL-15 and Varget worked great. These will give the highest velocities.

I'd suggest going with a 165gr bullet.

I fine it interesting that you would handicap your son with a rifle that is barely more than a shoulder held handgun. Would this be your first choice for an elk weapon for yourself?

quote:

The whole faster powders for shorter barrels line is a complete myth.

well said.....

I don't know how many times I see this myth reported......and that's exactly what it is.....a myth!

Well guys, I can only vouche for my experience and not what I read in a book or magazine.. reflecting someone else's experience....

but my working with powders in long and short barrels... has supported what you guys claim is a myth...

I am not posting this as a challenge or an argument... just posting my working with faster powders has not born this "myth" out..

if you have them on the shelf, they are worth a look see...

for those short Rugers, I'd actually be looking at data for 14 inch Contenders instead of long rifle load data..

Hodgdon's number 25 manual lists powders from Hodgdon for most of those rifle calibers in Contenders with data from 4198 to 4831...

so pick your poison.. and what best fits your needs..

because in the end, it doesn't matter what any of us say.. we aren't the one hunting with the Ruger.. you are..

Hey Paul, From what I've seen, you need to avoid Double Base Powders in the short barrel. They make a HUGE Fireball. There can be a Fireball with the Single Base Powders, but it has not been nearly as pronounced for me.

The Fireball could induce a bad Flinch on the youngster.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Paul, From what I've seen, you need to avoid Double Base Powders in the short barrel. They make a HUGE Fireball. There can be a Fireball with the Single Base Powders, but it has not been nearly as pronounced for me.

The Fireball could induce a bad Flinch on the youngster.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Closin` that one good eye will go a long way toward helpin` to prevent that problem HC....

I`ve never really noticed much day time flame in my rifles, only pistols. Slow powders there are where I see it the most, H110, 2400, ect. I don`t have any real short BBL`ed rifles though, 20" is the runt of the safe.

Hot core has a point though. The slower powders usually give the most velocity with both long and short barrels. They also are the most noted for producing a flash, some more then others. You might not want that in a hunting situation especially at dusk/dark.. I don`t think the danger is so much in producing a flinch, but in assessing his shot if it isn`t a drop at the shot situation...or getting a second rd off if needed.

i use H-380 in my sons 18" 243 and it does not give the 2 foot of flame out the barrel like 4350 or 4895.

i would go with the H-380 it's one of the most versital powders going, and nothing wrong with the 16" barrel unless you plan on mounting a bayonet on it.

the go to powders in .308 is like 4064,varget, 4320. ect..i like RL-15 it has always gave me the highest velocity with the best accurace. After loading this powder for many years. I later found out, it is the choice for the U.S. military for loading there M118 long range sniper round