I loaded some 7mm Mag test rounds this weekend. All were new Nosler brass that had been fl resized with a Lee die, trimmed, etc.

I noticed when seating the bullets that the neck tension was very, very light. If I pushed hard with my fingers, I could push the bullets in. I cheated and crimped them all.

I got a set of RCBS dies in today (what I normally use) and resized the brass with it and had no issues and the correct amount of neck tension.

Has anyone had these issues with Lee before? Any idea what I may have done wrong? I have never had this happen before. I had tried some of the 308 Win dies a few years ago and quickly got some RCBS dies.

I love the Lee crimp dies BTW.

A sizing die should have the ability to reduce the neck diameter on the thinnest case neck.

Normally the expander should be .001 smaller than bullet diameter.

I would have removed the expander and measured its diameter and make sure it was the proper size.

Next I would have sized a case with the expander removed and checked neck diameter.

There would have been two possible problems.

1. The die was not reducing the neck diameter enough.

2. The expander was over sized and expanded the case neck too much.

Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/d...erworking_brass.html

At the Whidden Custom Die website they sell expander sets with 5 expanders for their dies. These expanders go from bullet diameter to .004 under bullet diameter.

I had issues of the same kind but with Redding competition dies and the 7mmRemmag.

quote:

Originally posted by bigrdp51:
A sizing die should have the ability to reduce the neck diameter on the thinnest case neck.

Normally the expander should be .001 smaller than bullet diameter.

I would have removed the expander and measured its diameter and make sure it was the proper size.

Next I would have sized a case with the expander removed and checked neck diameter.

There would have been two possible problems.

1. The die was not reducing the neck diameter enough.

2. The expander was over sized and expanded the case neck too much.

Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/d...erworking_brass.html

At the Whidden Custom Die website they sell expander sets with 5 expanders for their dies. These expanders go from bullet diameter to .004 under bullet diameter.

Thanks. I suspected it might have been a tolerance issue. I did confirm that the brass was running all the wap up inside the die. The RCBS die worked fine.

I have many Lee dies and never had any issues with them, unlike RCBS, which has had quality issues. I have several sets of RCBS dies too. Do the trouble shooting and mensuration on your expander plug, and size some without it; ;you will quickly see what the issue is.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I loaded some 7mm Mag test rounds this weekend. All were new Nosler brass that had been fl resized with a Lee die, trimmed, etc.

I noticed when seating the bullets that the neck tension was very, very light. If I pushed hard with my fingers, I could push the bullets in. I cheated and crimped them all.

I got a set of RCBS dies in today (what I normally use) and resized the brass with it and had no issues and the correct amount of neck tension.

Has anyone had these issues with Lee before? Any idea what I may have done wrong? I have never had this happen before. I had tried some of the 308 Win dies a few years ago and quickly got some RCBS dies.

I love the Lee crimp dies BTW.

Firstly, crimping to overcome a neck tension issue is a very bad idea. The crimp will actually 'bow' the neck, making the tension even less. This will undoubtedly screw up any accuracy the load might have.

Secondly, every single time I have used a Lee FL collet die, the adjustment has been very difficult to obtain a good neck tension. I refuse to use them now, even when my buddies bring them to use on their loads. RCBS dies are cheap enough to just buy a set for their cases.

It is rare that I don't use RCBS for most hunting rifles, but, I use Forster and Redding for extreme accuracy rifles.

Cheers.

I have had several different brands of dies and actually prefer the Lee dies.

Tolerance stacking. Loose die meets thin necks
and in some instances a harder neck
and this is what happens. Chances are a randomly selected replacement die will work. I had several bags of
Remington .375 H&H that won't hold
Bullets when sized in my ancient RCBS dies, wouldn't size in a new set
of Lee dies that I'd picked up to try the FCD, but worked perfectly in yet another set of
RCBS. Does anyone else remember when a bag of
brass cost a fraction of a set of dies? How did they end up costing more?


I had a streak of bad luck about ten years ago when Barnes TSX in a few calibers fit loosely in the necks. In those cases taking .001" off expander balls for .003 under bullet diameter did the trick.

quote:

Secondly, every single time I have used a Lee FL collet die, the adjustment has been very difficult to obtain a good neck tension. I refuse to use them now

There is no such thing as a Lee "FL collet" die. The Lee Collet die is a neck-sizing die. Lee usually makes their mandrel (combined with decapping pin) a bit on the large size, so neck tension may be minimal. If you want/need more neck tension you simply chuck the mandrel in a drill and hone it down a thousandth or two in order to achieve greater neck tension. Or, Lee will sell you a smaller mandrel for a nominal price.

Lots of reloaders seem not to understand the concept of the Collet die and how to use it. When properly set up it is the very best way to resize rifle brass, provided you want it neck-sized only. Best of all, the cases require no lubrication.

That is correct.
Some case necks are also tapered in thickness. The Lee collet neck die does not work very well unless the case necks are of uniform thickness which means some long tapered necks have to be turned for the collet die to work properly.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:Lots of reloaders seem not to understand the concept of the Collet die and how to use it. When properly set up it is the very best way to resize rifle brass, provided you want it neck-sized only. Best of all, the cases require no lubrication.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I loaded some 7mm Mag test rounds this weekend. All were new Nosler brass that had been fl resized with a Lee die, trimmed, etc.

I noticed when seating the bullets that the neck tension was very, very light. If I pushed hard with my fingers, I could push the bullets in. I cheated and crimped them all.

I got a set of RCBS dies in today (what I normally use) and resized the brass with it and had no issues and the correct amount of neck tension.

Has anyone had these issues with Lee before? Any idea what I may have done wrong? I have never had this happen before. I had tried some of the 308 Win dies a few years ago and quickly got some RCBS dies.

I love the Lee crimp dies BTW.

I had the same issue with seating Barnes TSX bullets in 30/06 cases. Unlike the naysayers, you CAN tighten up the bullets nicely with a Lee Factory Crimp Die because I did it.

Some mention a "collet die" while you say a full length resizing die. If what you're referring to is a collet die which isn't the same as a full length sizing die, you can chuck the mandrel in a drill and use some fine sand paper to take off a few thousandth's of an inch to get tighter necks.

Finally, why are you sizing and trimming "new" Nosler brass? You don't need to and you, in fact, messed up perfectly good brass you could have loaded up without all your waste of time.

. The Lee Collet die is a neck-sizing die. Lee usually makes their mandrel (combined with decapping pin) a bit on the large size, so neck tension may be minimal. If you want/need more neck tension you simply chuck the mandrel in a drill and hone it down a thousandth or two in order to achieve greater neck tension. Or, Lee will sell you a smaller mandrel for a nominal price.

Lots of reloaders seem not to understand the concept of the Collet die and how to use it. When properly set up it is the very best way to resize rifle brass, provided you want it neck-sized only. Best of all, the cases require no lubrication.[/QUOTE]

Correct Stonecreek

The plot thickens! I got a replacement RCBS die, did not check it, loaded up some rounds and found out it was out of spec! The bullets were only being held at the mouth of the case, found out when I seating some TTSX with the pressure band at the neck and the bullet spun.

So, pulled the resizing piece (or whatever it's called) out of 7x57 die I had, tested with the Barnes, and bingo.


Twice in a row, two different manufacturers. At least I have a test methodology going foward - try a Barnes bullet and see what happens.

Looking forward to getting back to the range with some properly tensioned case necks. And no, I don't believe the crimp die is sufficient to counter this issue.

That is pretty much impossible for two in a row from different makers; you should buy a lottery ticket because the odds are a billion to one.
A systematic check will show your problem; bullets, expander plug, brass, die body. The least likely suspect.
Send the dies to me and I will troubleshoot them.

Lee = Junk That is the best way I can explain it.

I think most of the problems with reloading dies is the fact that a LARGE percentage of the reloading public DON'T read the fine print, have NO idea whatthehellandwhy so are unable to solve minor problems...just blame the sh** outta everything...DON'T have the slightest concept of what "TOLERANCES" are or mean, and don't seem to bother learning.

I've used EVERY brand of die out there going back to Herters FAMOUS "STUFF" and have had at least one or two problems with every brand at one time or another...that doesn't stop me from buying them...Coupled with that there is always something I'm not altogether happy with about EVERY BRAND and THAT doesn't stop me from buying them...I just adapt and overcome...if you can't do that you need to find another hobby.

I think Lee bullet seaters are garbage and suck big-time and so do Hornady's, but all I have to do is machine out a better nose receptacle that fits the bullet noses correctly and Lee/Hornady seaters magically become ever bit as accurate as my fancy Redding, RCBS, Wilson and Forster competition HIGH DOLLAR micrometer SEATERS. THROW AWAY THE **** O RING POS and mill a decent stem. I Don't have any problems with Lee sizers whether collet or plain ol' everyday straight inline sizers...you just have to know and understand HOW to make them work better.

I just got bought two sets of Lee 4 piece die sets for my 38-55 and 40-65, a .410 bullet sizer, I'm having a .380" made and a 38-55 FCD custom made...I also ordered a Lyman 40-65 taper crimp die. Of course the bullet seater plugs don't fit any of my bullet noses so I'll need to do some work there, but every other cast bullet bullet seater I have has the same/similar problems...the flat nose plug doesn't fit the meplat or the ojive of the flat nose bullet and the RN plug doesn't fit the profile of the RN bullet but that's been the case for as long as I've been shooting cast lead...rifle and pistol...NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN IS THERE.

DIES, BULLETS, BRASS, RIFLES AND CHAMBERS are ALL made with machines and machines have tolerances and there are tolerances for ALL the aforementioned items which should tell you something, not to mention barrels, scopes, scope mounts, triggers stocks and every other accouterment hanging off a shooting iron.

Simply said if you don't like some product DON'T BUY THEM...VOTE WITH YOU MONEY AND PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE............WHY WASTE ONLINE TIME RATPHUCING IT.

I've NEVER come across ANYTHING that is perfect...not even close...we just want to piss, moan and groan and every one of us would gripe to hi heaven if we were hung with a brand new rope because it chafed our necks.

Good Hunting

I went back and measured the expanders in the RCBS die - the original and the one I switched. Both are the same.

So It has to be the one difference in resizing - the lube I used. The "loose" brass was sprayed with Hornady case lube. The "tight" brass was rolled on the old school RCBS white pad which was sprayed with their lube and then the mouths scraped across an area on the pad thick with lube. So I figured maybe the expander in the "loose" bath was causing the issue due to the lighter lube?

Austin,
I use the aerosol Hornady One Shot Lube. It's good but I ensure a good application to the inside neck surface in addition to the case exterior. I spray into the necks from two angles to get even distribution. The necks ride over the expander plug pretty well with this system. Even better is bronze brushing inside the necks which I do as the with my RCBS Case Prep Centre as the first stage of any case prep. With this system I've never had an issue with inadequate neck tension and most bullets I load are TTSX and some TSX. However, I am not loading 7mm Rem Mag.
Also, silly question possibly, are you running the case up into the die far enough to get the initial neck compression before withdrawing the case back over the expander plug ? I say silly question because I know you are an experienced handloader and do not want to offend.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Secondly, every single time I have used a Lee FL collet die, the adjustment has been very difficult to obtain a good neck tension. I refuse to use them now

There is no such thing as a Lee "FL collet" die. The Lee Collet die is a neck-sizing die. Lee usually makes their mandrel (combined with decapping pin) a bit on the large size, so neck tension may be minimal. If you want/need more neck tension you simply chuck the mandrel in a drill and hone it down a thousandth or two in order to achieve greater neck tension. Or, Lee will sell you a smaller mandrel for a nominal price.

Lots of reloaders seem not to understand the concept of the Collet die and how to use it. When properly set up it is the very best way to resize rifle brass, provided you want it neck-sized only. Best of all, the cases require no lubrication.

Stonecreek is dead on.
This is a simple adjustment of the die coupled with a polishing of the expander stem.

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
Austin,
I use the aerosol Hornady One Shot Lube. It's good but I ensure a good application to the inside neck surface in addition to the case exterior. I spray into the necks from two angles to get even distribution. The necks ride over the expander plug pretty well with this system. Even better is bronze brushing inside the necks which I do as the with my RCBS Case Prep Centre as the first stage of any case prep. With this system I've never had an issue with inadequate neck tension and most bullets I load are TTSX and some TSX. However, I am not loading 7mm Rem Mag.
Also, silly question possibly, are you running the case up into the die far enough to get the initial neck compression before withdrawing the case back over the expander plug ? I say silly question because I know you are an experienced handloader and do not want to offend.

Yep, runs all the way up and I get the camming action at on the press.

That issue happens with all dies on very rare occasions, the usual fix is simple, chuck your stem in your drill press and using a file and wet or dry paper turn a thosands or two or three off the expander ball.