Hi all. Another poster put a question into my head.

I'm looking to buy a schwack of brass next year and would like people's opinions on what they've found as far as durability between the different manufacturers.

Norma and Laupa are out of the question (not available or vastly too expensive) so I'm left with Hornady, Remington, Federal and Winchester.

If you had to bank on one of these for maximum case life which would you go with?

p.s. I'm reloading 308 win. Nothing hot, nothing fancy.

Question:
Which manufacturer produces brass which tends to last the longest?

Choices:
Hornady
Winchester
Remington
Federal

 

This is the best brass for the 308.I reload the same brass for a long time.I love anything Winchester.

Specifically for the .308 Win, see the section labelled "Preferred Brass" in this article:

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

- mike

Thanks guys.
mho, I forgot about that article (probably read it 100 times)

shootaway, sorry about the skidoo helmet comments. You're a hoot mate. I'm not sure if your theories on the 308 are better than on the 458 and 375, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I would think a military surplus case would outlast comercial brass. Treated the same that is.

LC, WCC,IVI,IMI all come to mind

But avoid any that has been fired in a machinegun.

muck

quote:

Originally posted by Copidosoma:
Hi all. Another poster put a question into my head.

I'm looking to buy a schwack of brass next year and would like people's opinions on what they've found as far as durability between the different manufacturers.

Norma and Laupa are out of the question (not available or vastly too expensive) so I'm left with Hornady, Remington, Federal and Winchester.

If you had to bank on one of these for maximum case life which would you go with?

p.s. I'm reloading 308 win. Nothing hot, nothing fancy.

Sorry, but your logic is flawed. Lapua brass is not expensive at all. It's the most reasonably priced brass on the market, bar none. I once reloaded the same 5 Lapua cases 35 times in a single outing at the range while working up a load. Try that with Remchester brass and you would have to replace the cases 4or 5 times before the end of that day, maybe more. Those five Lapua cases went on to be reloaded more than 200 times, I did anneal them a few times during their life. Yeah the Lapua is twice the price, but its durability is probably twenty times that of the brands you listed, including the Norma.

pointblank,

I've certainly considered the point. I just have no way of getting the brass where I am. As far as I know. I haven't checked i midway or cabelas shipps brass to canada but it is hard to get anything else.

Anyone know of a Canadian source for Lapua brass?

Unless you're reloading some sort of gallery load, certainly not something in the range of 50,000psi, I find the idea of reloading a .308 case of any manufacturer 200 times flawed. The brass flow would cause multiple case trimmings and neck reamings and I daresay before 200 reloadings were reached the body of the case could be crushed with your fingers like an egg shell.
While Lapua brass is good brass made to tight specs, its certainly not magic. I buy a good bit of it in the smaller calibres for the ease of case prep but I don't find its longevity anything spectactular. 200 reloading, indeed.

quote:

. . .I find the idea of reloading a .308 case of any manufacturer 200 times flawed. The brass flow would cause multiple case trimmings and neck reamings . . .

Stillbeeman

At the risk of starting that age-old arguement again, brass flow does not result from multiple firings but from multiple sizings. I'm one of those who has used cases for as many as 150 firings without a need to trim or ream. And that is with benchrest loads that are HOT!

JMHO

Ray

I tend to neck size only anyways.

I'd be very surprised to see anything last 200 loadings. However, everything I've heard suggests that Lapua lasts long and is very consistent.

As I said, I'd love to get some but it is rare as hens teeth up here.

Gosh the internet is great.

Canadian dealer for Lapua...
http://www.hirschprecision.com/

I'll look into it. Otherwise I think Win might work as well.

quote:

At the risk of starting that age-old arguement again, brass flow does not result from multiple firings but from multiple sizings. I'm one of those who has used cases for as many as 150 firings without a need to trim or ream. And that is with benchrest loads that are HOT!

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
.....I'm one of those who has used cases for as many as 150 firings without a need to trim or ream. And that is with benchrest loads that are HOT!.....Ray

I can believe that. A nice tight, well polished chamber and not too dry a case and you will get that! You say 'benchrest'. Do you neck size or just seat the bullet? I'm guessing your chamber neck allows minimal expansion - just enough to release the bullet?

quote:

brass flow does not result from multiple firings but from multiple sizings.

i'm a novice, so i am just asking here....isn't brass flow from BOTH firing and sizing?

pegleg

care to elaborate???


303guy

Yes, it was a Benchrest cartridge (capital "B"). Benchrest chamber. Tight neck. Neck size only.


tasun

Are you trying to bait me into an arguement?? 12530 posts in 4 years. A novice!

Ray

cheek -

probably 12k of those 12530 posts have been in the political forum....

i've loaded some with the lee loader (neck size only) but have not yet taken the plunge to press-and-die loading. i should have the equipment to do so after the holidays and am looking forward to it.

It is difficult for me to state as a general rule that one brass manufacturor is better quality than another.

At one time or another all of the listed manufacturors have supplied some really poor brass.

Just Wed. for example I was called over to a bench where a guy was using FED. commercial .308 loads and about every 4th shot developed a small gas escape slit on the side at the thick part of the base. The only other time i,ve seen this exact failure was with some Mil. 6.5 Carcano ammo.

For a long time some of the bulk Win. brass had largeish Diameter primer pockets.

Some of the Rem. bulk brass had ragged holes in the sides of the cases.

The Hornady brass at times seemed soft but than so did other manufacturor's brass.

These are but a few problems that crop up with brass, and quality problems are not indiginous to one brand or the other all the time. It seems to be a pay your money and take your chances. Most of the time, however, you will receive a usable product.IMHO no American brass manufacturor stands head and shoulders above the rest. That does not mean I recommend foreign brass either. roger

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:i'm a novice, so i am just asking here....isn't brass flow from BOTH firing and sizing?

tasun

I recognize your moniker from the political forum that I read when life gets boring. I also recognize it for what it means. I'm an old Indian War buff.

Anyway, I'm gonna assume that you're not setting me up. And I'll risk another flag from pegleg too.

When you fire a new case for the first time it may actually shorten in length a little. It's because the case has to expand to fit the chamber. The solid head does not expand so the brass has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the body of the case. An improved case like an Ackley, may shorten as much as .020" on fire-forming.

Now if you lightly neck size that case and shoot it again it isn't going to change. The pressure is not acting only in the direction of the bore but in all directions in equal force. It's not trying to push that case out of the bore along with the bullet causing it to stretch or flow.

Now, resize that case in a standard FL die and you are squeezing it back down to the inside dimensions of the die and there is going to be a tendancy for the brass to flow away from the solid head, kinda like squeezing a balloon. But not as much as you would think. But then when you pull that case from the die the expander button is going to open the case neck and at the same time put a lot of drag on the case pulling it away from the head. That is where most of your case growing will occur. That's why neck sizing only, even in dies like a Lee, is better for case life than FL sizing. Minimum neck sizing in Benchrest dies is even better.

In olden days there were Benchrest shooters who made but one case for their rifle. They would shoot it and then reload it right at the bench. Their chambers were cut so that not even minimum neck sizing was needed. That case would last thru hundreds of firings, usually the life of the barrel. That practice didn't catch on for a couple of reasons. 1)If you got caught with the clock winding down the pucker factor went way up. 2) Making up 15 or 20 cases to fit the chamber worked just as well for accuracy and those 20 cases could also be made to last the lifetime of the barrel.

Other shooters also tried what is called "stepped necked cases". It also involved no neck sizing and longer case life but didn't last long either.

Today, most Benchrest shooters make 15 or 20 cases for a new barrel. They will shoot them until the necks get work hardened and will not hold the bullet uniformly. Most of them will toss the cases at that point and make 15 or 20 new ones. But some will anneal the necks and continue using the same cases until the barrel wears out or until they catch ridicule from their buddies for being so tight with the few $$ it takes for new cases.

Ray

Not counting the ones you've ruled out, I have found RWS, then Winchester, then Remngton cases to last the longest. Federal brass didn't make the cut for me. In additon, in .308 and .30/'06, I've found SOME U.S. Military brass to be quite good, especially the National Match stuff which does not have crimped-in primers.

Some of the very best military brass I ever used was some Canadian IVI cases made in 1969. I got it as loaded ammo, and fire-formed it to my chamber with the GI load........

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

brass flow does not result from multiple firings but from multiple sizings.

i'm a novice, so i am just asking here....isn't brass flow from BOTH firing and sizing?

No question about it....brass flow is a result of both firing and resizing.....the greater the headspace the greater the flow.

It's the largest reason such good case life results from the AI chambers because they are custom chambered and usually to very minimum headspace. The same improvement in brass life can be achieved by any chamber being made to allow minimum clearance of the cartridge.

I have chambered several guns using a FL resized case as a "go gage" and FL resized thereafter. Brass life does increase.

One does run the risk that a factory load may someday not chamber in these guns however.

quote:

pegleg

care to elaborate???

150 firings on one case? Give me a break! With hot loads the primer pockets would be gone way before that. I shoot benchrest and have for 20 years and know this is what will happen. Before the introduction of the Lapua brass, we had the old baloon head brass and the primer pockets would be the first to go. Then we had the Sako brass and that was just soft brass. Then the Norma which was pretty good but the primer pockets were the first to go.
We would start out with Remington primers and go to Federal primers and end up with CCI primers cause that is how it worked out size wise when you miked the primers. Good brass is a criticle component for an accurate rifle. Then Lapua cmae out and things looked up. I cut my brass pretty close to chamber diamentions and try to neck size ONLY when I have to. Several firings and it becomes inevidable that you have to at least have to neck size. Hot loads makes your brass grow no matter how tight the fit is. We try only to small base size the brass but eventually you have to bump the shoulder back a thou or so. Just facts. Try it and see if you can fire ONE case 150 times. Bet you can't!

I like Lapua & RWS first, very durable. I gave 15 firigns on one set of Lapua in my 260ai & it runs hot. Norma & WW are pretty much together, but I find Norma more uniform. The RP comes next & Federal bringing up the rear. You can get 1000 WW cheap & sort to get 500, you'll be pretty close to Lapua cost then.

About 40 reloads are max . Yea Yea I know 600 reloads on the same case BS !.

I've been at it far to long in too many calibers . It doesn't happen . I don't use Newer Winchester ANYTHING any more . Laupa #1 then # 2 RWS in my book !. Then it's a guess Norma sloppy primer pockets some times .
Federal, Remington ,Hornady ??. I can't tell the differences , I use a fair amount of 98-2004 LC brass when available .I've had decent loadings with those .

Shoot Straight know Your Target . ...