I've heard they are make a pretty good hunting bullet. They make several for my .358 Winchester, including a 225-grain round nose and a pointy tipped one in the same weight. And, if I read their site right, they offer different jacket thicknesses, depending on game hunted and expected velocity at impact.

Then they say "order carefully!"

Order carefully? TOO MUCH TO PROCESS ! My tiny brain does not know if the whitetail I intend to shoot in November will be at 10 yards, or 225 yards. Therefore, I do not know if impact velocity will be 2300 fps, or 1900 fps.

But I'll start with this: My ideal bullet will fly 400 yards with zero bullet drop, turn the deer's lights out like a shot of sodium pentothal in the O.R., field dress him with hydrostatic shock, and deposit him in the back of my truck. Over the years, I've come to accept somewhat less than my "ideal".

So, seriously, you .358 guys: which Hawk bullet do you recommend I use for deer? How about for elk? Moose? Brachiosaurus? (Okay, forget that last one. I'll use my .458 Lott with A-frames.)

Deer: 200 or 225 X .035

Elk/Moose: 250 X .035

Thanks Joe. Would that be round nose or spitzer? Also, I saw where it said the .035 is suitable for magnums, which a .358 definitely ain't. They say the .025 is for lower velocity rounds and single shots, so this is what threw me off. The .358 Win is kind of a "tweener".

quote:

Deer: 200 or 225 X .035Elk/Moose: 250 X .035

I had some issues with my wildcats pushing the Hawks to fast. You shouldn't have an issue with the 358.

I would go with the .035. Joe's choice looks good. If you want only one go with the 225 or 250. The 250 will kill the deer just as well as the lighter bullets and a 225 will work on Elk.

If you can I prefer spitzer.

Best of luck on a zero drop at 400 Yd 358 bullet.

A user said that the open base in the jacket blew the lead core out and the jacket stuck in the barrel. The next shot blew the rifle up.

There was a severe injury.

Do a search on the net for the story.

I'd use the .025 in both weights and also use the spitzer configuration.....they have a better B/C and will fly better; of course, it depends on the range you're talking about.

quote:

A user said that the open base in the jacket blew the lead core out and the jacket stuck in the barrel. The next shot blew the rifle up.

There was a severe injury.

Might want to talk to Hawk about that....sounds like B.S.

info@hawkbullets.com

I tried to chase down that jacket stuck in the barrel BS and was only able to come up with some anecdotal stuff. No definitive proof, no pictures, no real, solid evidence that it ever happened. I've shot a lot of Hawks (a little over 300) in load development in the 400 Whelen and 7x57 and have never had one separate in the barrel.

The same poster made the same comment on another forum recently when the subject of Hawk bullets came up.

I think Hawk Bullets might be interested to know someone is posting unsubstantiated negative claims about their product. I don't think they prosecute liable and slander like they used to. That's a shame.

They are made very similar to the Barnes Originals. I never heard of Barnes doing that. I call BS on the story also.

The .025 jacket will do just fine on White-tailed deer and smaller game.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
[QUOTE]
Best of luck on a zero drop at 400 Yd 358 bullet.

Wait. Does that mean they do have one that will field dress my deer and put him in the back of my truck? Sign me up for a few boxes of those!

Yep.........it'll cut and wrap the tenderloin and backstraps, too

I shot about 30 head of plainsgame with the 225 gr. .338 Win. bullet with the .060 jackets and they mostly separated completely and those that didn't the lead was in place but would fall out in your hand.

My grandson blew up the heaviest jacketed bullet they make in a 222 on a deers throat, the shot hit center under the jaw, it blew completely up in the neck and didn't even exit albeit it killed the deer and of course the would was awesome.

IMO, the Hawks are just another cup and core bullet that works well enough in the old Win. calibers at their lower velocity, but not so well in high velocity modern firearms. Today all bullets should be processed with soldered cores such as the new Rem. UB corelokts, Nosler Accubonds , Swift Sirraco, Hornady Interbond, and Woodleighs.

Sierra and Hawk need to jump on the band wagon..

Unless I'm mistaken, which is entirely possible, the original intent of Hawk bullets was for older rifles with softer steel barrels, thus the dead soft annealed jackets both for wear and to expedite expansion at lower velocities. The vast majority of those older rifles also had lower velocities, as Ray alluded to. I don't believe I would use them in rifles with a velocity approaching or exceeding 3000 fps.

I've been using them for years in various and assorted old rifles and have had nothing but excellent results....with one current exception. My 9 X 57 does not like the 225 gr. Hawk bullets...or anything else less than 250 grs.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokin Joe:
I'd use the .025 in both weights and also use the spitzer configuration.....they have a better B/C and will fly better; of course, it depends on the range you're talking about.

quote:

A user said that the open base in the jacket blew the lead core out and the jacket stuck in the barrel. The next shot blew the rifle up.

There was a severe injury.

Might want to talk to Hawk about that....sounds like B.S.

info@hawkbullets.com

A young man by the name of Tod Bartels(?) had his rifle blow up. I will search for the link.

I found this and am done with the topic.

""I shot about 20 head of African plainsgame with them in my 338 Win. and some deer with my 7x57 and in each case I used the thickest jackets they had to offer and the heaviest bullets..In each case the jacket seperated from the core..I was not the least impressed..

I do believe they might work on deer size animals in the old Win. calibers like the 38-55, 33 Win., 45-70, 45-90 etc. mabybe in the .348 Win. but I wouldn't swear to it..

They are basically nothing MORE than yesterdays bullets with a lot of promises IMO..No partition, not soldered to the jacket, no locking feature to hold the lead in the jacket, and a real line of BS to sell them...


Edited by atkinson (10/20/08 02:45 PM)"
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https://www.24hourcampfire.com...umber/2512804/page/3"

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
I tried to chase down that jacket stuck in the barrel BS and was only able to come up with some anecdotal stuff. No definitive proof, no pictures, no real, solid evidence that it ever happened. I've shot a lot of Hawks (a little over 300) in load development in the 400 Whelen and 7x57 and have never had one separate in the barrel.

The same poster made the same comment on another forum recently when the subject of Hawk bullets came up.

I think Hawk Bullets might be interested to know someone is posting unsubstantiated negative claims about their product. I don't think they prosecute liable and slander like they used to. That's a shame.

Mart,

I make these posts in good faith to promote and save our sport of hunting and shooting.

Search the links yourself.

Thank you

Yeah, I think I'm finished with this also. What always struck me as odd is when someone gripes about bullet performance; core & jacket not holding together etc.
How did they know? They retrieved it from a Dead Animal.

99,

Go back and read my post. I believe I stated that I have searched for real evidence of this happening. Thus far, your links included, all I have come up with is some anecdotal posts and no hard, physical evidence of a bullet jacket being stuck in a barrel. For all I know the one story linked could have just as well been a squib load which stuck a bullet in the barrel followed by a full power load. Until someone shows me some pictures and a report from a non biased third party who examined the rifle afterward, I am going to have to believe it never happened.

My own experience with the Hawk bullets has been contrary to your linked anecdotes.

I will say I don't use Hawk bullets in high velocity rifles. And not because of any fear of them coming apart in the barrel but for the same reason I don't chose other cup and core bullets for high velocity work. I like the fact that Hawk provides bullets that no other manufacture does, for rifles that would be limited to cast bullets otherwise.

I use Hawks in such things as .510 and .405 calibers; modest velocities where the old fashioned cup and cores work fine. I am not modern enough to think that everything has to be bonded core, solid copper and other such marketing nonsense, just to kill a deer.

dpcd, you and me both!
I have more perfect mushroomed bullets retrieved from game that are rem corlok or barnes originals then anything else.

Y'all convinced me when you said Hawk bullets generally fly slower than thicker jacketed bullets. One thing the .358 doesn't need is reduced velocities. Not that I'm worried about the effect on game; just that I'm a anile about keeping trajectories consistant at longer ranges.

I think you may have missed the point on velocities. I don't think anyone stated that Hawks fly any slower than any other bullet, only that they are better suited to moderate velocities. The 358 Winchester certainly is a moderate velocity round. A Hawk bullet out of a 358 will run the same velocity, within a few fps, as any other bullet of the same weight, assuming the same powder charge.

I don't know what you consider "longer ranges" but regardless of the bullet you choose, long range and 358 Winchester are not often used in the same sentence. I doubt you will see any real difference in trajectories when comparing any two bullets of the same weight and similar profiles in the 358.

I agree with: dpcd, theback40 and mart. If you're looking for a long range cartridge, the .358 isn't it. Hawks should work fine.

I am quite aware of the .358 Winnie's limitations. I had this rifle built as a carbine on with a 19-inch barrel on a Remington Model 600 frame. I originally intended it for a horseback/backpack hunt in BC for moose, however, bad knees (I mean VERY bad knees) have derailed those plans, probably forever.


With good knowledge of the round and its trajectory, along with lots of practice, I figure I could make a humane kill out to about 300 yards. From everything I've read and from talking to folks with experience hunting moose with the .358, a 225 grain pill launched at 2400 fps would serve well for what I intended (does not have to be a premium bullet at these velocities to get the job done).

BTW I saw on other sites (at first I thought it was here, but it wasn't) that most folks get somewhat slower velocities with the Hawk bullets loaded with the same loads as the Sierra or Speer bullets -- about 50 fps slower. They attribute it to the soft jacket creating more drag.

Damn Savage 99 you will be sorely missed!