Loading for a BAR II in 270WIN.

Ive always used a fast burning powder like WIN760 and AR2209,H414 etc.

Friend of mine has the same gun and he swears by H4831 with a 130-140gn bulet BUT he uses a magnum priner. Used to use normal primers but had the occasional misfeed in the semi.

Any one else had this, or similar loads for the BAR II.?

Magnum primers are generally used with slower burning powders as they are hotter and slow powders are harder to light up.

BTW......W760/H414 are pretty much the same speed and are fairly slow powders, around 4350 speed.

If the primers work well with you loads in your gun.........GO FOR IT!

sc....

my personal rule of thumb, if it's over 50 grains of powder, or 80+ grains of case, it gets a mag primer.

primers DO affect pressure, so start with bottom loads again.

i personally like win LRM primers for 99% of my stuff and fed 215 for the monsters...

for what it's worth, 760 was, for a several years, the slowest powder olin made, and h414 aint a speed demon. I always use mags with 760, as it's one of my fav powders.

748, on the other hand, is a faster power, more long blc2/335/rl15

jeffe

[ 09-20-2003, 16:05: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

I emailed Hodgdon about mag primers for H4831 in a 270 Win several years ago.

Phil Hodgdon replied that mag primers were not needed for this application.

I don't think it hurts to use them, but you do need to start low and work up (pressure changes). I have tried them myself and didn't see much difference in accuracy with the exception of IMR 7828 in 243 Win with a 100 grain Partition.

BTW I have heard that 414 and 760 are almost if not exactly the same thing. Not sure though.

While I have not thought of using magnum primers in a 270 I might if I used ball powder.

My 270 really favors CCI BR2 primers with very small groups at 100 yds. Powders are RL 22 and 4831SC with 110 and 130 gr bullets.

On gas operated guns is there a theory that faster burning powders are favored for correct port pressure?

I'm still scratching my head over magnum primers.

My firste experiment with them was in the 7.62x54R, with an old, old batch of H4831. You just can't get enough powder into the case to get max MV and pressure. So I thought I would see if a magnum primer would perk it up a bit. It doesn't. Pressure and MV actually went down slightly.

More recently, I did a formal experiment with H4350 and IMR4350, with hot and cold cartridges, and there was no difference in pressure with magnum primers in either case, or with either powder. When it gets cold outside, I'll continue the experiment with a cold barrel.

Originally, the magnum primer's claim to fame was that it would provide better pressure consistency under very cold conditions, with slow powders.

I've also seen experiments where different primers were used with the same load, and primers do make a difference in pressure. So I'm having a hard time reconciling all of that.

I use CCI-BR2 primers in all my rifles, from a 22 through a 375 H&H AI in temps from 110 to minus 40 and have never had ignition problems.

Don

I once asked Accurate Arms about using Mag. Primers in the .270 Win. Their reply was that Mag. Primers were not required with the .270. Their load development was with std. primers. Being a big .270 Win. fan my favorite load uses a Hornady 140g and H-414, I use CCI BR-2 primers almost exclusively. I have never had a problem and I hunt in N.W Pa where it gets good and cold.

That said, I am sure you could use Mag. Primers if you drop back and work back up.

Scout Master 54

I'm of the opinion that win LR are hot enought for any of the 30/06 cases. But in CCI I use mag primer at 80% or above. But very seldom use CCI primers any more. In fact I think I only have Win LR and Fed 215 on my bench.

Based on all my reading's and pratical experience Magnum primers are not necessary with less than 75 grains of slow powder. However; some regular primewrs do seem to produce better groups than others in a given rifle/ bullet /powder combination.
I have not seen where a magnum primer has been of any benefit in any of the 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06
35 Whelens I have loaded for. Powder speed to bullet weight and bolt vs semi-auto has. In a semi-auto I would stay with a powder speed in the IMR-4064 range. Slow powders will sometimes cause improper functioning.

[ 09-21-2003, 08:47: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

Okay, courtesy of Rocky and Jack over at HuntChat, the following are other Hodgdon/W-W interchanges:
Winchester 540 is Hodgdon HS-6
Winchester 571 is Hodgdon HS-7
Winchester 296 is Hodgdon 110
Winchester 231 is HP-38

As noted numerous times, treat changes between them as you would a change in lot # of the same powder.

R-WEST

The most significant difference between "magnum" primers and "standard" primers is the lable and the price. The "standard" primers of some brands have as much force (heat, energy, whatever you want to call it) as the "magnum" primers of other brands. Use whatever seems to work best in your particular gun/load.

BTW, whatever your friend's problem with functioning was, it was not related to the primer.

I use Federal GM210Match primers i my 270's and have never had any problems. I simply don't believe that a 270 has enough powder to warrant a mag primer. Just my two cents worth.

I always use magnum primers with 4350 in my 30-06 and I get great results.

Try the different primers, with everything else remaining the same, and see what results you get in your rifle.

My experience suggests that unless you really need a magnum primer (and I do NOT use magnum primers in my 375 H&H, finding instead that a regular Winchester WLR works quite well for that cartridge), you are likely to get better accuracy with a non-magnum primer.

Saeed did systematic primer tests some time ago, so it's worth checking his results, posted here on Accuratereloading.

I would guess more 4831 is burned up in .270's than any other powder. So much so, that I'm beginning to believe that if a .270 won't shoot 130 grain bullets with H4831 accurately, then it's a stinker.
I have tried H414 and it worked ok, but I had what appeared to be hang fires in a Remington mountain rifle I had. You could hear the snap of the firing pin, and then the gun would go off. I emailed Hogdon and they said mag primers were not needed but that more powder would solve the problem. I imagine the same would hold true in an autoloader, more powder is the same as more primer. As has been pointed out H414 is slow powder, it falls in the range of H4350 etc.
I'd try a slightly hotter charge to eliminate misfeeding.
Good Luck.

I have used the mother of them all (Fed 215mag designed for such as 30-378etc) when I want to bridge the (large) gap that exists between VVN150 and N160. This primer with N160 gives 1894's patent N155 ie good velocity without hideous muzzle flash (a pet hate of this euro shooter.

When primer pockets get slack, silver primers which are coated and hence larger tighten things up again.

Okay, guess I better jump in here...what have I got to lose?

It basically makes no difference if you use a magnum primer or a regular primer in your .270. Of for that matter, in any of the small to medium range calibers.

What you want to do is make sure that you use the same primer you used when you worked-up the load.

If you have 50,000 magnum primers, 20,000 benchrest primers, and 200 regular primers, by all means, feel free to use the 50,000 magnum primers when working the load...and then stay with it.

My usualy procedure is to start all loading work-ups with Remington regular primers. (Because I have tons of them...)

After I find the proper powder, and the proper weight, and the proper length that meets my demands for accuracy for that particular rifle, I then load 10 rounds each with Remington magnum, CCI regular and magnum, Winchester regular and magnum and Federal magnum and regular primers.

I then print 2 200-yard, 5-shot groups with those loads. The primer that shows the tightest two groups is the final decision. No further tweaking or anything, and that is the load I use for the life of that firearm.

Why no benchrest primers? Because I personally think they are marketting hype. I tried several thousand of them in rifles which I had already worked-up very good loads for, and there wasn't any inprovement, and in some cases, the groups were remarkably worse.

Now it is a totally different story when you get to the REALLY big magnums...when you are trying to light 3 tons of a difficult powder, you need a hot primer. For those I start with Federal 215...but after the usual process of finding a great load, I still (for the hell of it) change out primers to see if it makes a difference.

My 270 groups w/ IMR 4381 tightened w/ mag primers. You're still using the '06 case. Any primer you'd use with an '06 is at least "useable" in the 270. Whether it works with your bbl is subject to experiment.

[ 09-25-2003, 11:09: Message edited by: BBBruce ]