Hi guys, first post, nice to be here and thank you in advance for any help.

I am currently shooting a Sako model 75 22-250. I do a fair amount of coyote hunting, and have been shooting some rock chucks a couple times a week when work permits.

I have been using Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip’s in a 55 gr. The first issue is these things are a little expensive, running 23-25 dollars a box / 20. This wasn’t really a problem when I shot at a coyote or two or three a day, but when you go through 75 dollars of ammo during an evening of blasting rock chucks, then it tends to hurt a little bit.

This round shoots fairly well on paper, but I always thought this rifle could do much better. I tried going to the USA hollow points for economic reasons, but the accuracy dropped way off.

I have been around guns almost all my life, but haven’t ever reloaded even a single round. My question I guess is if I dove into the reloading scene, is there a recipe that you guys know of that will be at least as accurate as these ballistic silvertip rounds I am currently shooting (sorry I cant remember what the numbers were on paper last time I went to the range) and second, is this something that would save me a significant amount of money considering the relatively low amount of rounds I am shooting?

Im really kind of thinking a single stage press, measuring each round, etc etc…The ideal of the Dillon for speed and number of rounds per hour just isn’t something that would really benefit me.

Any help or suggestions are welcome, nice to meet everyone and thanks again!

quote:

My question I guess is if I dove into the reloading scene, is there a recipe that you guys know of that will be at least as accurate as these ballistic silvertip rounds I am currently shooting (sorry I cant remember what the numbers were on paper last time I went to the range) and second, is this something that would save me a significant amount of money considering the relatively low amount of rounds I am shooting

As many will say after me each rifle is a case in its self. While I have no doubt that a load could be worked up that would egual or exceed the accuracy you are getting. Many reloaders will have accurate loads for their rifles. To say they will work without testing and/or changes to be accurate in your rifle is a crap shoot.

Once you get in some practice you can load plenty of good quality ammo with a single stage.

quote:

This round shoots fairly well on paper, but I always thought this rifle could do much better.

It would help if you could give a little more information on how accurate this load is on paper; for instance how many inches 3 or 5 shots go in to.

That said, thus far, in all of the cartridges I've loaded for thus far, I've never failed to equal or better factory loads in the accuracy department.

My favorite bullet for the 22-250 is the Speer 70 gr. Semi-Spitzer. It gives me 3/4 inch or better 3 shot 100 yard groups out of my 22-250. It does just as well or better in a 222 and a 223 I shoot. Best of all, they're not particularly expensive.

The 22-250 isn't a very finicky cartridge. If the barrel is good, you should be able to get it to shoot well.

I have no doubt you can find a load that will shoot very accurately. The one piece of advice I would give you though is...don't get into reloading if your primary reason is to save money. You will most likely spend much more money reloading. With all the experimenting you'll do with various rounds and with all the gadgets you'll probably end up buying, you will be better off financially sticking with factory ammo. There are many advantages to reloading, but saving money usually isn't on the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Dukhnt:I do a fair amount of coyote hunting, and have been shooting some rock chucks a couple times a week when work permits.
This wasn’t really a problem when I shot at a coyote or two or three a day, but when you go through 75 dollars of ammo during an evening of blasting rock chucks, then it tends to hurt a little bit.

There might be those instances, those exceptions, that seemingly fly in the face of common wisdom. Possibly, an economy could be found here.

I agree with your approach. Weighing charges initially gives you an opportunity to experiment with powders before choosing your powder equipment. Buy good quality equipment, it doesn't have to be overly expensive, and excellent dies (like Forster or Redding). The $500 a month (round number) being saved on ammo will amortize your investment rather quickly.

As a note, to the best of my knowledge the loads you have been shooting use Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets that last year sold for $39 per 250. Also, you will get something like 200 rounds from a pound of powder. Assuming you're saving your brass, my calculations put your cost per round at 30 cents, about a 75% to 80% saving.

A caveat: others will tell you, and possibly correctly, that you will begin shooting more after reloading. I don't know of any twelve-step program for reducing the tendency.
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Hi,
I am fairly new here too.....but not new to reloading both with press and by hand. I faced the same issue as you did when I got started. I was using my Ruger Model 77 in 22-250 for woodchuck kills here in the east. All I wanted was a handful of accurate ordinance!

I was told by a friend to buy a lee loader manual reloading kit from lee precision. Cost me 20 bucks (maybe 25.00 today from the same source) and let me reload by hand.

All I needed was a flat piece of wood and a rubber mallot, cheap bar scale and some spent cartridges from my factory loads. Oh yes, a pound of powder H-4895...and some of the readily available 53 grain sierra match bullets. I would probably, if starting today.....use RL-15 powder instead.....(was not available them. and 100 large rifle primers.

This minimal investment moved my groups from 2.5" down to around an inch. I am talking about 100 yard performance.....

The loads I used were from a sierra reloading manual. Started with the minimum load and worked my way up to 20% short of max loads in small grain increments preparing 5 of each load. Shot these stings at the range from a bench at 100yds and noticed that one load stood out for acuracy. So I loaded up another few handfuls until I hit a sweet spot with best accuracy.

My experience over the years has shown me that no two rifles in the same caliber shoot exactly the same. Nor does each set of components. So if I switch out the bullet, the primer, brass or powder you need to start the process over.

I moved on from the lee loader - to buy a hand press and then a Lee press with dies and all manner of other stuff. I have justified these additional investments to accomplish even better precision. I now shoot very close groups with that rifle and am able to feel very confident about accurate kills at 200yards....

have fun.....but for your safety....please get your load data exclusively from load manuals....not from what a poster might recommend. You only have one set of eyes and limbs.

hanve a nice day!

quote:

Originally posted by Dukhnt:
Hi guys, first post, nice to be here and thank you in advance for any help.

I am currently shooting a Sako model 75 22-250. I do a fair amount of coyote hunting, and have been shooting some rock chucks a couple times a week when work permits.

I have been using Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip’s in a 55 gr. The first issue is these things are a little expensive, running 23-25 dollars a box / 20. This wasn’t really a problem when I shot at a coyote or two or three a day, but when you go through 75 dollars of ammo during an evening of blasting rock chucks, then it tends to hurt a little bit.

This round shoots fairly well on paper, but I always thought this rifle could do much better. I tried going to the USA hollow points for economic reasons, but the accuracy dropped way off.

I have been around guns almost all my life, but haven’t ever reloaded even a single round. My question I guess is if I dove into the reloading scene, is there a recipe that you guys know of that will be at least as accurate as these ballistic silvertip rounds I am currently shooting (sorry I cant remember what the numbers were on paper last time I went to the range) and second, is this something that would save me a significant amount of money considering the relatively low amount of rounds I am shooting?

Im really kind of thinking a single stage press, measuring each round, etc etc…The ideal of the Dillon for speed and number of rounds per hour just isn’t something that would really benefit me.

Any help or suggestions are welcome, nice to meet everyone and thanks again!

Welcome! You can sure get help here!!

I understand that there are perhaps some handloads for some cartridges that will work pretty well in many different rifles. However, I tend toward the concept that all guns are individuals, and what works BEST in any given one may be pretty poor in the next one. So I usually work up a load for each of my rifles separately, even if chambered for the same cartridge as another one.

As far as saving money is concerned, the more you shoot, the more you save. But I like to think of it this way. When you discard an empty piece of brass, you are tossing out 75% of what you paid for that complete round of smmunition!

But I have not loaded ammo to save money for many years. I started for that reason, but I load ammo now because I like to be able to create something a little different than you get from a factory. That's getting tougher, as the factories have turned out just tons of new and different stuff in the ammo field in the last ten yearsor so. Today, I rarely use factory ammo at all, unless it is to get empty cases to refill. When I acquire a new caliber, I always get a couple hundered new, empty cases for it, and start off shooting handloaded ammo.

Buy a used press on Ebay along with a scale powder measure and dies also pick up a new edition Lyman reloading book and you will be ready to go, some guys I have read here post like reloading is equial to doing 12 years at Med school and being a brain surgeon it's not just take one step at a time and pay attention.

I RELOAD TO SAVE $$$ AND HAVE BEEN DOING SO SINCE 1962

I have loaded and tried lots of bullets in a 22-250 which I have had 4 different ones but this load has always been a tried and true load 50gr Nosler BT and 38.0 grs of H-380, H-414 also works great in the 22-250 I just happen to have 15lbs of H-380 right now

The 22 Varminter first saw daylight in 1937. Remington finally made factory ammo in '67, calling it the 22-250 Remington. It's probably the greatest groundhog or rock chuck killer in the history of smokeless gunpowder. I've reloaded for that caliber since '76.

Sorry DUKHNT, reloading centerfire rifle ammo isn't akin to a Betty Crocker recipe. You don't buy the tools and components, go eeny-meeny-miny-moe and have an exact duplicate of your fave factory load. It just isn't that simple. But I'll go out on a limb and predict that if you invest the $75 you would spend on rock chuck factory ammo on primers, powders and bullets, you'll find one or more loads that better the accuracy of that Winchester ammo. And that's saying something because today's premium ammo (and that's what Winchester Supreme ammo is) is very, very good. Bettering factory ammo was a whole lot easier 20 or 30 years ago.

To find what your Sako likes best takes reloading bench time, and then shooting bench time. But you are starting with one big advantage; a once-fired case that is fire-formed to your exact chamber. Factory ammo must be sized to fit every 22-250 chamber ever made.

As a beginner, I would recommend the Lee Precision combo die set which includes a full length sizing die and the Lee collet neck sizer, along with a bullet seater. Lee guarantees more accurate ammo using their collet neck sizer or your money back. I like 55 grain bullets for groundhogs. Don't be cheap and buy bulk factory bullets, at least not for working up a load. Get good, accurate, Sierra or Nosler target bullets. That will eliminate them as the cause of an unsatisfactory group.

The latest edition of Lyman's reloading book will fill in all the basic info every reloader needs to know when getting started. Read it thoroughly. Good luck from all of us in the reloading fraternity.

Hunt-ducks,

If you've had four different 22-250 rifles and have 15 lbs of H-380, something tells me you do some seriously high volume shooting. It also tells me you've spent a large amount of money. This doesn't seem to mesh with this guys situation.

Dukhnt, here are some the conditions you'll probably need to actually save money:

1) As suggested earlier, buy a used reloading kit off E-bay and don't upgrade the weight scale or any of the other tools.
2) Refrain from trying too many types of bullets
3) Only try one type of brass and primer
4) Don't buy additional reloading manuals
5) Don't spend much money building a reloading bench
6) Don't try to continually improve your groupings once you find one that will group decently
7) Don't factor in the time you spend reloading
8) And most importantly, shoot in high enough volume that you'll have to rebarrel your rifle and start the load-tuning process all over again.

If you have additional reasons for reloading besides saving money(such as having fun or finding a very,very accurate load) or if you think you match the conditions above, I say go for it.

Jeez! Where'd all the DUCKS come from??

My experience with the economics of reloading goes something like this:

I shoot pistols a lot. Before I started reloading it was common for me to go through about 4 boxes of .40 S&W at about $13.50 a box each weekend or so. Now that I am reloading, I go through about 10 boxes which I make for $8.30 a box each weekend. Now that I'm reloading I'm actually spending more money! Why? Because I found reloading to be fun, and more trigger time for less dollars per round is an added bonus. Also because dropping $100 on components for some reason doesn't feel as bad as dropping $100 on factory ammo. However, I'm sure that if I cut back to 4 boxes a weekend I'll actually "save money" and start covering my initial equipment investment. I just don't see that happening though.

I guess the moral is: If you want to reload to save money, I'm sure it's possible. However, if you find you are starting enjoy shooting and reloading more and more, you might spend more than you would have otherwise. However, I don't consider the latter scenario a bad thing.

Buy a $100 Lee kit. A set of Lee dies. A lyman 48th Reloading book. 100 Rem/Win cases (unless you have saved your brass) 500 or 1000 bulk bullets 55grs, Remington psp or Hornady pp. (I've heard the Midway dogtown bullets are good but haven't used them) 1000 standard primers. A lee auto prime. 1 Lb of H380.
Ignore anybody that hollers about "don't buy that cheap stuff, etc". It'll get you started. You'll get a book with your kit. Read it. Twice. Read the Lyman book. Twice. Then open your kit. When you first set it up, you might want to use C clamps cause you might want to move it around some as you get your feet on the ground. Once you read your books thru and thru, if you have questions, come ask us. If you have a local reloader that can mentor you a bit, that's good too. But either way, read the books.
Now then, when you're ready to reload, resize your cases, reprime them and dump 38 grains of H380 in the case. Seat your bullet. Don't get all excited about seating it xxx off the lands or any of that crap. Just seat the bullet to the overall length recommended by your load book. When you have reloaded your first round, make sure it will fit in your rifle then load about 25 or so. And go shoot 'em up. You'll probably find they are more accurate than store bought and you haven't even began to find the sweet spot for your rifle.
There's no point in trying to make a 22-250 something it ain't. It's an excellent rifle as it is and a 55gr bullet will kill any coyote you'll ever see. And the difference between say a Hornady bulk bullet and a Sierra Match King is awfully small. A pdog won't ever notice the difference. If you're gonna be doing some semi-serious paper punching, it wouldn't hurt to lay in a small supply of SMK's in 52 or 53grs.
I've loaded 1000's and 1000's of 22-250 rounds over the years for Pdogs shooting. All on a single stage press. I've always been interested in how good I can make a cartridge, not how fast.

I'd suggest the Lee collet die set, the deluxe set that has the FL die as well. You'd be surprised at how many firings you can get in the 22-250 w/o having to FL size.

I like the 52 grn Hdy Amax, the 55grn Sierra BK, and the 52grn Sierra HPBTs. Varget, H4895, H4350, and AA 2015BR have all been great powders for me in the 3 22-250s I load for. 2015 is my favorite under the BKs and AMXs.

Buy a Lee Classic Cast Press, a scale(RCBS 1010 or 505), a set of the Lee Deluxe dies, the Lee trimmer w/ lock stud, the lee trimmer pilot for the 22-250, win brass, wlr primers, a load manual(or print off recipes from the diff powder manufacturers web sites), and some bullets and you'll be set.

Shoot me a PM if you need any help with that set-up.

Good Luck

Reloader

You get into reloading because you're interested in reloading. It will NOT save you money. You spend the same amounts and just get to shoot more.

Multi-stage presses are for volume reloading. They can produce accurate results, but nothing gets accurate like a single stage and someone who understands the process.

Varmint Al has a good discussion about reloading for accuracy:

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm

I've loaded hundreds of rounds of basic pistol ammo in a single reload session with a single stage press. It's not "fast," but once you're set up and get the system organized it's feasible.

But if you're going to get "serious" about reloading it requires a bench, some space, some $$$, and some attention to detail. There's a learning curve.

Isn't reloading great? It allows you to shoot more for the same money - depending.
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I am sorry I cannot agree with those that like the lee dies, I hate the two nut loosening to move the depriming pin/neck sizer. Also I busted a Lee turret press reloading 30-06 ammunition. So like the man says...you can pay me now or pay me latter. Buy a good sturdy single stage press from Redding or RCBS maybe Lee if its cast iron, and buy good dies, if accuracy is your game why buy the cheapest you can find? I also hate the rubber O ring that keeps the lee dies in one place as opposed to the allen screw locked nut on the Redding dies. With one rifle caliber to load, buy one good die set, a good press, a good scale, a set of lee powder dippers, a cartridge block to hold while you load, a funnel, case lube and lube pad or spray, a Lee hand priming tool if you want it, case trimming tool (forester is ok), case chamfering deburing tool, forget about primer pockets uniforming for now, buy 100 cases and some good bullets along with a few pounds of different powders or follow someone elses receipe....I built my cheap reloading bench which helped me a lot out of a section of old gym floor i.e. varnished oak on 3/4 inch plywood make sure your bench is stable you can laminate a couple of peices of 3/4 inch plywood together with wood glue, it don't have to be pretty but it does have to be stable!

quote:

Hunt-ducks,

If you've had four different 22-250 rifles and have 15 lbs of H-380, something tells me you do some seriously high volume shooting. It also tells me you've spent a large amount of money. This doesn't seem to mesh with this guys situation.

I just bought from a guy 15lbs of H-380 for hold on $40 and 15 of H-4831 for $50, I use to trade a lot of guns in the 70's and got rid of a custom 03 G&H that I wish I still had in 22-250.

If your starting out new now the sticker shock could get you to change your mind.

I sat down and broke down what it's costing me to reload 20 rds of 22-250 using NBT 2nd that I bought 3-4 years ago on special not including brass it's $1.30 per box, here in Ca. lots of grandfathers and dads passed away and moved out of state last 15years and deals were to be had at a lot of yards sales as the feeling of owning a gun was evil by the off spring, so I guess there was some benifit to living out in PRK.

And here come the "I can spend more for my stuff than you can" boys.
I've got a Lee Loader that I can load winning ammo with. And I'll use a scoop. You can't get much cheaper than that. I shoot a Rem VS that routinely wins factory matches.
The fellow wants to get started in reloading, not take a second mortage out on his house. And I'd like to hear more about that broken Lee press. What did you do with it after they replaced it?

Just can't resist adding my $.02 here, what with all the Ducks around. You can and will save money reloading. Starting cheap (more exactly, inexpensive) will still load extremly good ammo. If that is all you are looking for, you will have arrived. However, if you expand into reloading for other calibers or want to do it faster, you may look into a press, powder measure, scale, powder trickler, case lube and pad, etc, etc. Its all fun and if you enjoy it you will have a pasttime that will last you a lifetime. If you catch a real bad case of it, you will find yourself lurking around pawn shops and garage sales looking for things normal people don't even know what they are used for. Even worse, you'll visit Ebay, Accurate Reloading and Auction Arms every evening. But that is OK, the wife knows where I am most of the time.

I would agree that I don't necessarily save money on shooting compared to when I didn't reload, but I get to shoot a ton more than I did before reloading. I also have ammo that outperforms the factory ammo I used to shoot. Plus, I love to reload. Now, I shoot more and enjoy making the ammo. I can't believe I waited till I was 54 to start reloading.

Welcome to the forum.

If I had only one press, it would be a single-stage. If two presses, one would be a single stage. If three presses, at least one would be a single stage. See a pattern? I would never be without a single stage press.

With a progressive press, multiple acts are happening at the same time. Hard to keep track of and ensure every single thing took place the way it should. For example, with my single stage, I loaded maybe one or possibly two rounds without powder in them in 30 years. Last week on my progressive I loaded at least a dozen in one session. I wound up pulling 20 bullets out of their cases because I did not know how many were defective after my powder measure jammed up and quit dropping powder.

Two items on which I disagree with most of the other posters.

Buy at least two or three different loading manuals. The load recipes are different (Pay attention to what the loads were fired from, some use test barrels, some use actual firearms). but most importantly, the descriptions of the loading process will be written in different styles, with emphasis on different aspects of the process. Inevitably, some writer's "voices" will be easier for you to understand than others. Or one writer will describe an aspect that another will gloss over. Increase your exposure and you will decrease your risk of misunderstanding an aspect of loading.

A loading bench is great, but not necessarily indispensible. I could load 50 rounds an hour (pistol) on a single stage press mounted on a 30" 2x6. I put my end table in front of the couch, pull the drawer partway out, insert the 2x6 and close the drawer to wedge the 2x6 into place. With care (or someone sitting on the end table) I loaded just fine. The 22-250 requires a bit more force than a .357, but you get the idea. I have also loaded with my 2x6 clamped in a Black & Decker "Workmate" folding workbench.

If you can find a mentor, take advantage of that good fortune. Mentor someone else later on (not necessarily in loading or shooting, just mentor someone in anything good). Having someone else in the room watching, critiquing what you do and explaining the whys and why nots (especially the safety stuff) is priceless.

On presses, cast aluminum is lighter and cheaper, but it can break. Cast iron is nearly indestructible. RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Forster, Redding etc., any press manufacturer you can name have good products. There are very few bad presses ever made. Some, admittedly are better at some jobs than others, and that is where your choices become hard. For bottlenecked rifle cartridges, I would go for a compound leverage linkage rather than the single-link. (I have an RCBS Rockchucker I bought used about 30 years ago to replace my single-lever RCBS Jr) You could do the 22-250 on a single-link press, but it just takes fewer pounds force to operate the multiple leverage. A minor convenience.

Lee makes a reloading die set that you don't even need a press for. You add a block of wood and a mallet (wood, hard rubber, plastic, not metal) and you are ready to load for less than $40. A scale and a set of Lee's scoops help a lot, but you can make do without. Many reloaders eschew the Lee Loader as primitive, but it has its adherents, even among benchrest shooters.

If I were without any equipment at all and re-starting loading, I would probably buy one of the "Reloading Kits" most of the press makers sell. Buy one with a good press you think you will like, as most of the other components you will replace as you develop your taste in gear. For a good kit, $250 to $400 plus a set of dies and your first bunch of components, so take $500 to the store with you (along with your mentor for whom you will buy lunch).

Alternatively,(same premise, if I were re-starting in loading) I would scour the used market for stuff in good condition. For you, if buying used gear, a mentor would be absolutely essential unless you read your manuals thoroughly. On the good side, most reloaders I have met will not sell you their equipment if they think it will not serve you well (provided you level with them about being a novice and impress them as sincere). The shooting fraternity really is a fraternity (I do not mean to exclude our sisters out there).

Good luck, good shooting, wear eye protection especially when working with primers and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

Dukhnt

I forgot a couple things in my first (Long-winded) post.

Accuracy. You will find that handloads can be as inaccurate as factory loads, but you can adjust the powder charge, or change primers and make differences in accuracy that are significant, and reliably repeatable, so, you can tune reloads to be accurate in your rifle like you wouldn't believe.

It can be VERY satisfying to find the load that falls in your rifle's "groove". And the hunt for that recipe is thrilling in its own way almost as much fun as the hunt in the field. The best part? you can do it all year 'round.

Taking a Chuck or Coyote cleanly with a round of your own assemblage is guaranteed to widen your grin of accomplishment by at least an inch.

But handloading can be addicting, so, welcome to our happy little affliction.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

"... is this something that would save me a significant amount of money considering the relatively low amount of rounds I am shooting?"

No. If you are happy with the accuracy of commercial ammo and only want to cut costs of your current level of shooting, reloading is not for you. Just a fact of life.

Concerning choosing any brand of tools, you will find proponents of any given brand because they all work fine. In fact, if the measure of quality is the ammo produced there is really no difference in the common tools. And there's only a little advantage in the Competion/BR types, too little to be detected in most factory rifles.

Apologies to Jim C. <><, I disagree. While it is true reloading is not for everyone, even if cutting costs is the only reason for reloading, "reloading is not for you" as a blanket statement is not 100% surely true. 90% maybe.

The money saved is slim (when you take into account the initial investment in the gear). And even slimmer when you remember that most reloaders do not take into account the dollar value of the time spent reloading, or the value of the square footage in their homes devoted to the activity. If you continue to shoot only the same number of rounds you do of factory ammo, it may take a lot of reloads to amortize the cost of the initial investment in equipment. But after a couple of hundred rounds, saving 50% to 80% of retail factory ammo, you can save money.

How much? Check out this web site for a calculator of the savings you can expect (you will have to supply the cost of components for comparison)

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

There is also an alternative. A commerical cusom reloader can make ammunition for you in bulk cheaper than over-the-counter retail. If you make arrangments, you might get him/her to load your old brass cheaper than his usual rates.

Another point to consider is that even if you do not succeed in reducing your cost of shooting, you very likely will achieve the collateral benefit of better ammunition, better understanding of ballistics (internal, external and terminal) because you will have spent time and energy educating yourself about guns, bullets, physics and SAFETY.

By the way, if you don't spend significant amounts of time and energy studying the safety aspect of reloading, then I will agree with Jim C. <><. Reloading is not for you. Reloading is easy to do, because it isn't rocket science, but you can hurt yourself and others if you don't do it right.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

In addition to the reloading cost calculator I mentioned at

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

there is another site linked to the same location which talks pretty thoroughly about the pros and cons of reloading. \a dn the gear needed.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=33

entitled "So you want to reload." By Jerrick Linde

Lost Sheep (Larry)

"Apologies to Jim C. <><, I disagree. While it is true reloading is not for everyone, even if cutting costs is the only reason for reloading, "reloading is not for you" as a blanket statement is not 100% surely true. 90% maybe."

Lost, no apoligy needed, I agree. 90%.

I have really enjoyed my 40+ years reloading and it's been a boon for learning too. But I have watched quite a few fellows who got into it to save money and did not.

They kept shooting about the same amount as previous AND, due to a lack of dedication to the required experiments and learning curve, continued to use factory ammo at the same time! And I do consider all the adjunct costs. So, while I would love to say, "Yeah, you can save a little money reloading.", I know that in some cases it simply isn't true.

Purely personal opinion, but Dukhnt sounds like a nice guy who is one of those who ain't ready to get into loading for the right reasons. And I would hate to see him fall off the wayside by trying reloading for the wrong reasons after our encouragement.