Standard problem with the Encore, R-P, and Winchester new cases too short to headspace correctly. Belt space allows the brass to sit below the end of the barrel by .003, barrel to frame gap is .005. What caliber M die should I use to expand the neck allowing me to build a false shoulder for fire forming brass??

Also, have read that a slow burning powder, filling the case to capacity, creating a compressed load, bullets seated to touch the lands will help keep the force of the firing pin from driving the case forward during fire forming. Anyone have experience with this method? If so, what would be an appropriate powder to use in 7mm Rem. Mag., and 300 Win. Mag.?

Thanks Hot Core. Once I get the brass right, have not had a problem. I tried to leave the shoulder unaltered after the fire forming, but had a problem getting the hammer to cock on rounds made with the shoulder left as is. I can cam a round in with my Ruger bolt action, but the T/C likes the shoulder bumped just a little. The locking lugs evidently do not fully engage if the cartridge is at or over the length, shoulder to breach face. I have made some rounds for the 7mm out of 358 Norma brass, have over 20 loadings on them, no signs of head separation, so I guess the .001 off full length is working O.K. there. Getting the brass right for the first fire forming has been the tricky part. Got it whipped for the 7mm, but my buddy's 300 Win. Mag. suffers the same problem. I have cleaned all my 7 mag stuff off the loading bench; just to be sure I do not mix and mingle there. Once I get him some brass set up right, going to hold a class in reloading for him, have already started him purchasing what he needs. He is financially much better off than me, so he got the top of the line Redding dies, (sweet to use, wish I could afford them for all my stuff), but for the time being, he is going to use my press, trimmer, powder measure, etc. Till we got to making a list of everything he would need, I had not realized how much I had invested in my tools, hope my wife does not figure it out!!
Again, thanks for the help.

Shouldn't the brass conform to the same cartridge dimension standards as the chamber?

I`d complain to T/C. The headspace is a safety issue and if it`s wrong the company needs to make it right. The consumer shouldn`t have to rework ammo to funtion safely. What of people that don`t reload?
If the headspace is right the ammo will fireform properly with std loads to the chamber and no extra work is need.
JMO.................

I use a starting powder charge to fire form my brass.

Load the bullets long so they can stick into the rifling and not let the primers back out to fire form the brass. I have done this in several rifles to avoid head space problems. Check your reloading dies with a head space gauge you may be pushing the shoulder back and not knowing it. If you are only going to shoot the brass in the same gun it shouldn�t be a problem even if the chamber is long. Also try some factory ammo in your Encore before you decide to send it back because of a loose chamber.



Good luck

Of course it should, but then there is reality. Chambers for belted cases are supposed to headspace on the belt. But out of the three barrels for belted rounds that I have worked with, all have been cut between .003-.005 too deep. by correctly fire forming the brass, one can headspace on the shoulder and make the brass last much longer. I take noting for granted, and have the proper tools to measure with. run a dial indicator across any T/C barrel, and I would suspect that all of them are either too deep, or not deep enough. My .223 barrel allows the case to sit .004 below the barrel face on factory 55 gr. loads by R-P, Black Hills sits flush. I guess they have to chamber to accept all brands of factory stuff. I found my best luck with my 7mm Rem. Mag. was to use 358 Norma brass to form loads with. I have a batch that I have 22 firings with, no stress fractures or split necks yet, the original R-P brass only held up for 8-10 loadings before starting to get head separations, that is when I started learning about the Encore, and how to really set them up to shoot well. One must measure the frame to barrel gap, and check the relative location of the cases being used to make sure that there is not excessive headspace. Folks who shoot factory ammo will not have any problem, and there will not be enough case stretch in the one firing to cause a problem, but for the cash strapped individual who likes to shoot a lot, reloading is a necessity, plus it lets me get the full benefit of the round out, by being prudent and safe in technique.

Chamber meets SAMMI standards, but that is fairly loose, as you know, and then there is the barrel to frame gap to deal with. Have no intention of sending it back to T/C, not sure that it would do any good, and do not want to take the amount of time that it would require. Factory ammo fires with no problem, but measuring the cases shows a length gain of nearly .012 with R-P loads. What I do is resize to bump the shoulder back, leaving .001 difference in the frame to barrel gap dimension, basically partial resizing. Has worked well for me so far, I have one batch of Norma brass that I have been able to reuse 22 times with a fairly hot load, 140 grain Barns TSX, 67 gr. IMR 4831, Rem. Mag primers. No excess pressure signs, very accurate load. I have picked up a 30 cal. M die, which I use to expand 7mm brass with, then size to correct dimensions forming a false shoulder. Firing those rounds requires two attempts, as the firing pin must push the false shoulder up a bit on the first try, then it goes bang on the second, (R-P cases). The 358 Norma brass sized with my set up gives a false shoulder, and a couple of firings gives a neat new Shoulder, and each of them fires the first time. With the longevity of these loads, I may just stick to the Norma route, pricy as it is! I was intrigued by the possibility of forming a compressed load to preclude what ever compression of the 7mm brass shoulder that I am getting. Have tried crimping the bullets at the length required to force them into the lands, but with the 7mm brass, it still takes two attempts to fire, guess the neck friction is overcome by the hammer force. Not knowing what brand of powder would give a full case and not exceed pressure, I though maybe some one here had some experience with this method of fire forming!

Would love to be able to follow that tact, but loading to the lands, (Stony Point gauge and comparator as my guide) still results in the firing pin blow forcing the case forward, and I am still under length. Tried crimping the round really tight, still slid forward over the bullet.

My Method

"KISS" (Keep it Super Simple)



Load them long, Jamb them into the rifling, shut the action, fire the shell. Adjust the Wilson head space gage according to directions. Adjust the dies according to the head space gage.



Life is good.

Good Luck

Either the brass or the chamber is wrong. 300WSM headspaces on the shoulder (FACT)...so something is not right. What does factory ammo do?

Matt, keep in mind this is not the WSM, rather the old style 300 Win. Mag. and in fact is supposed to headspace on the belt, like it's parent case the 375 H&H, as does the 7mm Rem. Mag. Most chambers are cut a little long, to accommodate variances in factory ammo. Want to spend some time measuring, check the differences in W-W, R-P, and other factory ammo with real measuring tools, and you will find differences far greater than you would imagine. All will meet specs, but again those are fairly loose, and you would not want you heart Dr. working with those tolerances.

Never mind... I thought this was a 300WSM. Still, even with traditional belted cartridges that are meant to headspace on the belt, you can headspace on the shoulder for better accuracy.

Exactly what I am trying to accomplish. By expanding the neck oversize, I can then re-size the brass to correct length in the right caliber, forming a false shoulder. When fired, these cases then take on the correct length and shoulder shape. Shooting factory ammo lets the case stretch at the head area, resulting an unsafe condition, which could result in a rupture of the case head. As supplied, new unfired, or loaded factory ammo is too short to seat out to the proper dimension, hence my request for opinions as to what size to neck up to, to properly form a false shoulder. The other question was about the right powder to use to be able to seat a bullet jammed to the lands to preclude the case from being driven forward during firing.

Back to square one....sorry for the confusion.

Run the neck over a 8mm or 338 expander, than resize to form your FS.