I have a Rem. 700 BDL Varmint that I had rebarreled about 20 years ago and chambered for 22-250 AI. I fire formed maybe 20 rds.(which I can't find) and has been sitting in the safe every since. About every three months when I pull all of the weapons out to clean them I think, "I really should work up some loads for this." Anyway, I fire formed (or should say tried to) twenty rds. this afternoon and was happy with the 5 shot groups:


But I have a problem:


Any ideas? The splits ran about 50%. I know this didn't happen when I broke the gun in. I have no idea how many times these had been reloaded. There were no pressure signs at all and everything seemed normal. Any ideas would be appreciated. I gave it a thorough cleaning and plan on running another 20 tomorrow. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rich

Are those full power loads?

How old is the brass?

Have you annealed the cases?
If not, do so, then fireform and
I'd bet you'll find they don't split.
Let us know,

Wish you well with it,
George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Are those full power loads?

How old is the brass?

Have you annealed the cases?
If not, do so, then fireform and
I'd bet you'll find they don't split.
Let us know,

Wish you well with it,
George

Brass is at least 20 y/o.
At the risk of sounding totally stupid(I'm good at that), what do you mean by annealed?
They are full powered but not near the limit.

What brand of brass? I tried fireforming two boxes of .300 H&H to .300 Weatherby, one was Winchester and the other Remington. I didn't lose one of the Winchesters but lost all but three of the Remingtons. Over the years of handloading, I have come to the conclusion that Remington brass (although good) is very hard, Winchester being quite a bit softer will fireform more easily than Remington and last longer. Older brass will harden without any working of the case at all, use new cases. Try fireforming your brass with a maximum listed charge of the fastest burning powder for the standard 22-250.

Annealing is the process you use to soften the neck and shoulder areas. It involves a propane torch and a bucket of water. Not hard to do, it just requires a little bit of experance to get the brass hot enough, but not to hot (color judgement). Search the forum, it's been well covered.
The brass will work harden with continued firing/resizing cycles. Once it reaches a certian level of hardness, it is no longer able to stretch and instead it splits.

It's Federal brass. I think I'll shoot up what I have and then buy some new stuff. Am I doing any damage to the gun when these split like that?

The brass is too hard (not ductile enough) in the shoulder area. This is common with older brass that has been fired (perhaps more than once) previously. While you can anneal older brass to rejuvinate it, it is a somewhat tricky process and unless you have done it before I wouldn't recommend it. I have never had a problem with fireforming new, unfired brass, which is what I would recommend for your gun.

I suppose that a steady diet of splitting cases could theoretically damage your chamber, but it is not normally a concern. The rear 3/4s of the case is obviously obturating and sealing off the gas, else you'd be writing about how important wearing shooting glasses is.

All, 22-250 brass isn't so rare or expensive so why not replace it? However, annealing old brass can work even though it's a bit time consuming. E.g., ten years ago I was given ~50rnds. of unfired WCC '45 .30-06 brass, which I disassembled and reloaded with 24gr. IMR 4198 and 175gr. cast bullets. After several neck splits, I annealed the cases and haven't had a split since. In fact, I think I'm still using some of that [annealed] lot.

how long is the brass? from the picture the neck appears to have a slight roll?(polished edge)
Does the chamber have a short throat?
What is the neck measure after firing ?
dont shoot any more untill you figure it out.
the hot gases escaping from the sholder will damage the chamber.

I shot another 20 today. These are Remingtons but don't know how many times fired. They did not split at the shoulder this time, they split at the neck. While I was looking for ammo to shoot through it this morning, I found 20 fire formed cases out of this gun. They were in a Midway box that was originally a new brass box. I think I bought a box of brass, loaded and fired them right away. They looked really good.
Hivelosity,
What should I be looking for in the throat? You have a good eye. I did notice the bolt closing harder than it should have yesterday, but not today. Could be that the Fed cases weren't trimmed to the right length. I assume the AI cases should be trimmed to the same length as the regular 22-250.(?)
All input is appreciated. I think we are narrowing this down.

Thanks,
Rich

when brass splits on the shoulder it is usually a pressure problem. BUT not knowing how many times the brass was resized and fired, may make it a hard worked brass problem. if the trim length for the brass was long it could compound the problem.
You should check to see just where you bullet touches the lands and load or adjust you overall length from that, also check the diameter of the case neck after the bullet is seated. if the diameter is is larger than >.254"
the necks wall thickness may be to thick. usually you can check a fired case from that chamber and determine what the neck size of that chamber. normally brass will spring back a few thousands.
my 243AI is a standard chamber but it has somewhat of a tight neck at .271".
Most die sets that are used for neck sizing only partially resize the neck. at the mouth of the case it may measure less than at the neck shoulder junction.
Dave

I have 400 rounds of 218 Bee ammo loaded that I will have to give to my nephew because I know I will loose half or more if I try to fireform them in my mashburn chamber. Some are fairly new and some are oooold. I'll just order some new brass.

Lyle

Rich:

In '73 when I got out of the Army I bought 100 rnds of Rem 55gr .222mag's for the brand new gun I'd bought in Germany and shipped home.

I reloaded and shot those same 100 cases until 1999. Some more than 60 reloadings. Full length sized each time. Never annealed them. Within the last yr (98-99) I bought 100 new Rem brass, and fireformed 300 or so .223's in the gun.

Two necks split, one was lost, another was crushed in the press. All the rest were still usable when the barrel went to hell and was replaced. I've had the same kind of results with '06 brass.

BUT: to anneal cases. Set them in half to an inch of water. Turn the lights kinda dim so it's easier to see the very slight pink color coming into the cases when heated with a propane torch. When they have " barely colored" all around, tip them over. IF you must do this in bright light. Watch each case, soon as it starts to show a bronzing color starting, quit and dunk them.

Brass will not harden as steel does with heat, but it will work harden.

BUT: IF you heat them til plumb red, they may/will/can be softened too much and ruined. That's why I say to dim the lights so you can see the pink coming in. Do it as you desire, or don't, your choice. But, that's how you anneal brass.

The same color heating, then quenching with decent steels will temper it and make it a lot harder. This is just right to harden screwdriver tips and other such tools.

Anytime a bolt starts closing hard, reject that load until you pull it down and trim the case. I've gotten to where I trim all my brass before loading.

Fire, pick up range brass etc, clean in vibrator, resize, trim & champher, vibrate til polished, reload, then final polish.

This is the way the factories do it, you won't hurt the loads, nor the powders like many claim. I used to believe it would myself til talking it over with a guy that loads over 2 million .223's a year and polish's them. He's never had a problem and has toured a couple or more ammo factories and claims this is the way they do it, so why can't we. Good enough for me. It's up to you.

Keep this in mind: "EVERY time you pick up a case, or loaded shell. Inspect it. Don't just throw it away when rejected either. Keep a scrap brass bucket handy and toss them in it. Might take a few yrs, but, when it's filled, sell it for scrap. My first bucketfull brought $44. The last one brought $48. That's enough to buy half a jug of some powders.

Wish you well,

George

my 22 1/4 ai liked hot loads and heavy bullets for fireforming.

if i used light bullets and regular charges i split cases because the shoulder would not get bumped far enough forward.

another tip, use the fastest powders.

Stinger what powder do you suggest?

CRIMSON

I USED IMR4895 AND 55 GR NOSLER BT. MY FIREFORM LOADS WERE JUST UNDER AN INCH, MOA. I NEVER CHECKED VELOCITY.

I FIREFORMED 100 CASES IN ONE DAY. THERE WERE MANY TARGETS OF OPPORTUNITY, GOPHERS, AND THEY WENT TO THE GRASS PATCH IN THE SKY.

FIRE FORM LOADS CAN BE VERY ACCURATE. JUST TINKER.

the july issue of rifle magazine has an article on the 22-250 ai. thought you might be interested.

Thanks.

Rich