The Barnes reloading manual has a barrel break in procedure where you shoot ten rounds cleaning afer each round, then shooting 5 2 shot goups again cleaning after each group, then 2 5 shot grous again cleanig after each group. Does anyone have a simpler method of break in? I never used to worry about this type of procedure, was I wrong all those years?

barrel break in is still a theory.....nothing is proven here and the best reason to adopt one is because ....it don't hurt.

Personally I think it's all hooey. Those that use a barrel break in mehtod will claim easier cleaning.....no one claims better accuracy and still more claim nothing at all.

You have not missed a thing IMO.

I'll agree with Vapodog... There's probably 100 different ways people have invented to "break-in" that new barrel. Just pick one that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. It will be just as effective as the next method. How effective is that? We're all still waiting on that answer

Take your gun out and shoot it, then clean afterwards as always. This barrel break in stuff is MYTH, like lots of so-called "facts" in this business. We wallow in a World filled with hyperbole and bullshit.

IMO, the biggest (and most underrated) problems in the barrel/accuracy business is letting metal (copper) fouling accumulate - it's more insidious and harder to clean than you might think. When sufficient, it will compromise your accuracy. I’ve tried all the cleaners, and the best I've found are the various new BORE FOAMS. You can get it cheap at Wal-Mart. It's easy to work with, non-toxic, non-corrosive, and it works great.

The second biggest problem is trying to get mediocre and/or skinny factory barrels to shoot accurately consistently. I don't bother with them anymore. I go right to aftermarket barrels ASAP, such as Krieger, Shillen, Hart, etc. Get a “stiff†one - that is, one that finishes ~0.70" or heavier at the muzzle. They're heavier but worth every penny, if you want consistent sub MOA accuracy.

The following break-in procedure has worked well for me. Pay attention now, it's very complicated.

Take a brand new rifle and clean the barrel for anything left in there by the factory. Then shoot it as you normally would looking for a good load. Clean the barrel every 20 or 30 rounds. Sooner or later it will become "broken in", whatever that means.

Gotta go rest my brain now.

I think there nuts

I think some top barrel makers advise to break in their barrels, but that doesn't prove that it makes any difference. I do it because it's no real trouble and allowes the barrel to cool down between initial group testing.
JL.

The barrel break-in procedures outlined by all the barrel makers that involves those extended procedures of shots then cleaning and more shots have a reason. If they don't describe the best of procedures then their barrels cannot perform to it's best. All those procedures came from the benchrest boys who dwell in a pin point accuracy world. The procedures do condition the steel inside the barrel and puts a finish on it or said another way "seasons the metal". If you want to have the best broke-in barrel that will get you it's best accuracy follow those rules. If you don't care and want 1 or 2 MOA accuracy only, don't follow the procedures, it is that simple. Most hunters of game don't necessarily need the pin point accuracy, some want it, others couldn't give a darn, pick your poison and proceed. Don't knock those that want it and use it just because you are indifferent. ----- If you don't care enough to do it right, when crunch time comes after many miles and much expense persueing that trophy of a lifetime results in a miss, don't wonder why. How many times have you said or have heard a buddy say, "there is no reason I should have missed that animal", now you might can guess. Good shooting.

quote:

Take a brand new rifle and clean the barrel for anything left in there by the factory. Then shoot it as you normally would looking for a good load. Clean the barrel every 20 or 30 rounds. Sooner or later it will become "broken in", whatever that means.

Works for me.

I have never heard the bore cleaner/patch/and ammo suppliers argue with this method of breaking in a barrel.

No, but I know a gunsmith who has a nice little sideline. Experenced shooters come to him for a new barrel as the present one don't shoot too good anymore.
They won't take no for an answer so he does the job, cleans the crud out of the old barrel, installs it in something, and away it goes.

And I'm not going to be the one to tell the likes of Lilja etc. that they don't know what their talking about.

I mean if a car manufacture says to change the oil every 5000 K. should I be saying gee, I can drive it 15,000K with out a change and I can't tell the difference.
JL.

among the really fun parts of the shooting sports and reloading in particular is the difference of opinions on certain subjects.

Among them is barrel break in, moly coating, bedding styles, barrel manufacturers, primer pocket uniforming, neck turning, runout mearuring, case length consistancy, seating close to the lands, and a host of other things.

There is no right or wrong here. All opinions are correct in their context. Every shooter must it seems learn themselves what fits their needs.

THe TRUTH according to Krieger Barrel Company.

BREAK-IN & CLEANING

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. . . For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in -- sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

CLEANING

This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."


You should use a good quality straight cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With service rifle barrels a good rod and guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle and even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.

There are two basic types of bore cleaners -- chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils and ammonia that attack the copper. The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemicals and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum. They clean by mechanically removing the fouling. Both are good, and we feel that neither will damage the bore when used properly.

So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together at a certain temperature, can cause severe pitting of the barrel -- even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely remove the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle.

Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. . . Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch or swab up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging things in and out of the muzzle. It will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact, it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return.

The chemical cleaners may be the best way to clean service rifle barrels that must be cleaned from the muzzle -- i.e. M1 Garand, M14, etc. . .-- because this method avoids all the scrubbing necessary with the abrasive cleaners and the danger of damaging the crown. But again, as long as the rod doesn't touch the crown, abrasive cleaners should be fine.

Abrasive cleaners work very well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of polishing the throat both in "break in" and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life.

Again, as with the chemical cleaners, a good rod and rod guide is necessary. A jag with a patch wrapped around it works well. Apply the cleaner and begin scrubbing in short, rather fast strokes of about two to four inches in length. Concentrate most of the strokes in the throat area decreasing the number as you go toward the muzzle. Make a few full-length passes while avoiding exiting the muzzle completely, but do partially exit for about six strokes. You can avoid accidentally exiting by mounting the rifle in a vise or holder of some sort and blocking the rod at the muzzle with the wall or something to keep it from completely exiting.


This sheet is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product.

The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less!

It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.

Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.

Stainless Chrome moly
5 one-shot cycles 5 - 25 - one-shot cycles
1 three-shot cycle 2 - three-shot cycles
1 five-shot cycle 1 - five-shot cycle


Thank you for choosing a Krieger barrel.

Barrel break-in does not increase accuracy, it increases the length of time the bore will remain consistent between NEED for cleanings due to degradation in accuracy.

the smallest groups in the world, are shot by those who break-in their barrels. maybe 1 out of 100 on the circuit doesn't break-in his barrels, the rest do so with great regularity and attention to detail.

YMMV, I break in all my barrels and don't lose any bore life,..because I test loads at the same time.

I broke-in the stainless barrel on my .223 thusly:

5 x 1, clean after each shot;
5 x 3, clean after each three-shot segment;
5 x 5, clean after each five-shot segment;
2 x 10, clean after each ten-shot segment.

It took about three hours, but I enjoyed it. I didn't shoot for accuracy, just to break it in. I'll do the same for the Krieger on my big rifle when I get it from the gunsmith.

Ackley Improved User, VapoDog and Delta Hunter: I have PROVEN to myself that barrels do INDEED break in.
How you might ask can this be proven. I will tell you!
I have been buying, setting up and shooting Rifles (for accuracy) in excess of 40 years now! I am guessing that I have done this way in excess of 100 times - maybe as many as 150 times!
Over the decades I have on numerous occassions done load testing for accuracy on a particular Rifle. I have tested loadings that were only so-so accuracy wise and then later in that particular Rifles life I have "gone back" and retested that previous loading/bullet combo.
Almost always after the barrel has been "seasoned" and the only so-so load retried the so-so load perked up - it shot better!
Way back in the 1960's it was "a given" or was common knowledge or at least commonly accepted that any factory or custom Rifle would not start to give its best accuracy until 100 rounds had gone down the barrel! This is barrel break in of a less sophisticated kind than is commonly done today.
I broke into accuracy "chasing" with such Rifles as Winchesters pre-64 Model 70 Varminters and Target Rifles as well as the earliest Remington Model 722's in Varmint/accuracy calibers and the first Remington heavy barrel Varminters and Remington 40X Models. Indeed I also owned several early Sako heavy barreled Varminters to cut my accuracy intent teeth on!
Barrels in my opinion and extensive experience DO need to be broke in!
Todays barrel break in regimens of shooting and cleaning every few rounds I feel confident in using. Why - because the BR crowd does it, the barrel makers recommend it and I know from past experience that things done to minimize bore fouling are worth the effort along with using care in getting the barrel seasoned to enhance accuracy, all, make sense to me!
In the latter part of the last 40+ years of accuracy chasing I have gotten more serious and have purchased many custom, top quality (expensive!) barrels. They are now in use on a variety of my Rifles. The experts say, do the barrel break in - I watch the BR types break in their barrels and I do the same. Its relatively quick and easy to do and I shoot groups that are pleasing to me after having done so and my barrels clean quickly, so, I continue doing the break in!
Nothing I have seen posted here as yet even comes close to convincing me not to. So I think I will continue to break my barrels in and even in the face of the danger of my suggestion falling on deaf and disbelieving ears I recommend each of you do the same thing!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The most important thing IMHO is the usual cool down period. I do think that a sound cleaning procedure is important though, but I dont do it at the range. I will shoot maybe two boxes max in a session and then clean it. Once broke in I am less anal retenetive about regular "thourogh" cleaning and use simple solvents like Hoopes or outers, copper removal is done about once in five sessions, maybe less depending on the specific barrel..

On a sidenote, I think that Barnes bullets would be a poor choice for break in, especially the standard "X" which is known for extensive copper fouling. I think that one good way to do it would be with low velocity (about 1300-1500 fs) hardcast gas checked bullets. Lots of them!

Whatever you do, DO NOT run a wet patch into a hot barrel. Let it cool down first.

So what is the prefered cleaning method, paste or chemical, for break in?

I am about to pick up my new Savage 12 on layaway, and I am planning to shoot some this weekend. Just trying to figure out if I should pick up some paste.

Chemical.

Paste will remove copper and carbon from the bore. You want to remove the copper, but leave some carbon down there. Eventually, you'll have a nice smooth layer of black in the bore, and copper fouling will be easy to clean out.

Just wanted to update this thread a bit.

I took my brand new Savage 12 FV to the range this morning. Since I had a few hours to burn, I figured I would try the break in procedure.

Did the one shot and clean thing for 10 rounds till, and never saw any copper fouling. I let the barrel, and then let it soak in some Beechwood Casey cleaner for five to ten minutes.

However, I did notice that there was less resistance on the cleaning rod as I continued. At the end of the morning, it was cleaning up really smooth. So the break in seems to be working!

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
I mean if a car manufacture says to change the oil every 5000 K. should I be saying gee, I can drive it 15,000K with out a change and I can't tell the difference.
JL.

Actually yes. Unless you are concerned about warranty conflict, which again, the Magnussun-Moss act would protect you. You can use Amsoil full synthetic oil and either their oil filter or one from synlube and go as high as 25K miles. No worries.

Regarding bbl break in. I do it. I believe it is beneficial. It cannot hurt. I don't mind doing it. And, it makes me feel better.

I think that when you take a metal bbl, introduce extraordinary friction from copper/zinc to it, add immense heat, carbon build up, shards from a primer and leave that in there on a NEW bore, your RISK of damage or accuracy potential loss is HIGHER than if you clean it first until the bbl is "broken in, or seasoned."

auto motors must "break in" when new. Otherwise, there would never have been such a thing as "break-in" oil. Why do most vehicles get better fuel milage after a motor is "broken in?"

That is my opinion. I have no problem going through the steps to break in a new bbl.

quote:

NEJACK:
However, I did notice that there was less resistance on the cleaning rod as I continued. At the end of the morning, it was cleaning up really smooth. So the break in seems to be working!

It does work. I've noticed the same thing. After working in Jensen's Custom Amm. in Tucson, AZ years ago, I saw bore comparisons then from BR shooters and accuracy conscious hunters where bbls that were broken in were compared to those that were not. There is a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
On a sidenote, I think that Barnes bullets would be a poor choice for break in, especially the standard "X" which is known for extensive copper fouling.

You are correct as in the Barnes manual they recommend you use a standard leadcore jacketed bullet for break-in.

I bought my son a new rifle a couple of weeks ago, a Ruger Compact .243. We loaded up 15 rounds at a starting level (since he had never fired a centerfire rifle before) and headed for camp this past weekend to shoot them, which he did with great success. When we got back home we cleaned the gun thoroughly and put it up. I now consider the gun broken in and ready to go hunting with. All we need to do is increase the load to near max. and let him practice as much as possible between now and the beginning of hunting season.

It really sort of amuses me (not a lot, but a little) to read comments like those of Varmint Guy who says "barrels........DO need to be broke (sic) in!". Why am I amused? Well, because of how it conflicts with what I have experienced while deer hunting for about 35 years total. The first 5 were with shotguns and the last 30 exclusively with rifles. In those 30 years I've missed exactly 1 deer and that was my fault completely because I had not taken the time to shoot my grandfather's 7.65mm model 1891 and didn't know it shot about 5 inches high at 100 yards with open sights. So, in all those years, I've never missed a single deer due to the barrel not being painstakingly "broken in". What possibly could I be missing out on?

DeltaHunter

For a deer rifle, you are correct. The benifit to loss ratio isn't there, even though I still broke in my deer rifle (we engineers are a through breed at times!). A good break in will lessen the fouling and maybe slightly improve the grouping, but the deer isn't likely to notice.

For my varmiter, where accuarcy and fouling are bigger issues, it was time well spent. Varmit shooting burns up alot of ammo, especially compared to hunting deer. If I can go 30 more rounds of p-dog shooting before I have to clean, then it is worth the 50 odd rounds to break in the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by DeltaHunter:
So, in all those years, I've never missed a single deer due to the barrel not being painstakingly "broken in". What possibly could I be missing out on?

Too many unknowns. In all of those years, what was your avg shot distance? Longest? What kind of accuracy is acceptable to you for hunting?

I do not think anyone said a bbl had to be broken in to kill a deer. The purpose is longevity combined with highest accuracy potential, this on top of consistency.

If you only shoot at deer out to about 250 yards, then you shouldn't have a problem with an inexpensive rifle of any make and Remington Corelokts.

However, if your goal is for the bullet to hit exactly where you aim every time, then I would argue that your probability of achieving this is higher with a bbl that was properly broken in.

There are more hunters that have rifles and have shot them for decades with factory ammo, and they kill animals annually. AND, they've never even heard of "breaking in a rifle."

It might just boil down to personal preference.

Well said Doc!

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:
Just wanted to update this thread a bit.

I took my brand new Savage 12 FV to the range this morning. Since I had a few hours to burn, I figured I would try the break in procedure.

Did the one shot and clean thing for 10 rounds till, and never saw any copper fouling. I let the barrel, and then let it soak in some Beechwood Casey cleaner for five to ten minutes.

However, I did notice that there was less resistance on the cleaning rod as I continued. At the end of the morning, it was cleaning up really smooth. So the break in seems to be working!

If you didn't see any copper during your breakin, then your solvent is worthless.