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When to anneal....or does it matter
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I'm currently in the process of forming a bunch of 30-06 and 270 win cases into 7x57mm. On my first batch I annealed between the form die necking down and FL resizing.
On this batch I left out that step and now have the cases FL sized and ready to load.

Will there be a problem with annealing these cases and then going straight to the loading process or will I need to resize them again afterwards?


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Posts: 329 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 19 February 2006Reply With Quote
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You will be fine annealing after forming and then loading, I've used this method for 7.65 Arg brass many times.
 
Posts: 1681 | Registered: 15 October 2006Reply With Quote
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I have some 404 Jeffery cases that were formed to 300 Dakota. To fire form these back to 404 Jeffery would it be better to anneal before or after fire forming.


Rusty
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"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
 
Posts: 9797 | Location: Missouri City, Texas | Registered: 21 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Rusty I would think that you will have to anneal before fireforming them back to 404j, I see split necks in your furure Wink
 
Posts: 1681 | Registered: 15 October 2006Reply With Quote
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I find these threads interesting.....I have never (in forty years of reloading) annealed a single case.....I'm sure there is a time and place for it but haven't found it yet in my own reloading. It makes me wonder what it has cost me to not anneal cases.


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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In my 40+ years of reloading, I have only annealed cases for my .257 AI and my .30 Gibb. I found that if I didn't anneal the cases before fireforming them, I would get 25-30% with split shoulders.

I recently read of a guy who set a new 1000 yd 10-shot record that anneals his cases after every shot.


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Posts: 1642 | Location: Boz Angeles, MT | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
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In my 44+ years of reloading I have annealed thousands of rounds of brass, although I don't remember starting until the 1980's. The reason I started was split necks and shoulders for 7.65 Arg brass formed from various other cases, but after lost cases to split necks on several magnum cartridges I started a routine of annealing them also. Especially at
todays brass prices I want to make it last as long as possible, why throw the brass away if the primer pockets are still tight, I now discard because of brass flowing forward and thinning in the body/thickening in the neck. In Rusties case 423 to 308 is a very big difference, and going back without annealing will most certainly split them. Brass work hardens both from firing and resizing and it will fail at the position that it gets worked the most, the neck/shoulder. I have 8mm brass formed from 06 mthat has been fired 20 times, thanks to annealing. I have gotten 6 loadings out of 300Rum after annealing, before annealing 3 if lucky. Annealing is an important part of the brass manufacturing process and also an important part of the reloading process. I had one 30-06 that started shooting fliers, looked bat the box and saw loaded 7 times, finished the day shooting the rest, annealed before loading eighth time- guess what no more fliers- that's right even neck tension on all the brass. It's just part of the process, resist if you want, after all it's your money. .02
Forgot to mention yesterday I annealed 31 284 WW cases that were formed to 7.5x55 Swiss several years and many firings ago, but if I would have annealed them last loading there would be 50. I lost 19 to split necks thumbdown that's what I get for being lazy.
 
Posts: 1681 | Registered: 15 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Thanks guys! Most interesting.

In my 50 years of reloading I have never annealed a case. I think I should. I fire form 300 Apex from 338 Win Mag. I will give it a try. As I understand it you get a pan of water stand the cases in the water heat the shoulders red and then tip each one over as you go along. Right?

Once again, I appreciate y'all sharing your experiences and knowledge.


Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member

"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
 
Posts: 9797 | Location: Missouri City, Texas | Registered: 21 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Rusty....you're pretty much on the money....but the temp is important and Hornady (I think) sells a "paint" that melts at the right temp and if a tiny bit is painted on the neck of the case you heat until the paint melts then tip the case over!


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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I put a dab of the paint just below the shoulder, at the transition point, so that the flame doesn't melt the paint, just the heat from the brass.

Geronimo
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I've been a faithful annealer for years. I started when I was forming 6ppc from .220 russian. I usually anneal cases after 5 firings. I had some trouble annealing by hand using the single torch drop in the bucket of water method when annealing the short fat cases. I bought one of the Ken Light annealing machines for that reason.

Lately, I've seen convincing evidence that suggests that the old method does not do a full anneal on larger cases like .30-06 and such, as the heat spreads in all directions through the case and quenching it in water stops the heat from spreading to the head, but also stops it before the neck is annealed evenly through from outside to in. It appears that using the two torch stations on the annealing machines eliminate that problem along with the need to quench larger cases as the necks are heated to the critical temperature faster, allowing air cooling and the resulting through and through annealing.

I believe that using the old method on my cases does have a useful effect in that it will extend the life of the case, but it has been proved to me that the old method does not restore ductility completely in thicker necks and larger cases. Of course, the difference is going to be very slight and most people other than BR and other match shooters would NOT find it critical. Even in the BR community there is a lot of debate over the benefits of annealing. Some well respected shooters anneal EVERY shooting using the old method - some use the machine - some never anneal at all after fire forming but relegate twice fired (in matches) to the practice bin.

All in all--- a hot subject for debate........


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Posts: 494 | Location: The drizzle capitol of the USA | Registered: 11 January 2008Reply With Quote
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