Ok here goes... I have never put much emphasis into the brass aspect of reloading. I am an amateur reloader compared to most here. I do think I reload a fair amount though. I focus mostly on speed and bullets that will perform on game. My main emphasis is on hunting. I work up loads with different bullets and different powders looking for the most accurate loads, but will sacrafice a little accuracy for better bullets in some cases (ie would rather use a swift A-Frame for elk than a nosler BT in a 270 for elk). I am getting better at reloading (and shooting for that matter), and so am thinking about taking it to the next level. That would be shooting out to 400 and maybe 500 yards, (not 1000). I will never be that good nor plan on ever having the time to do so.

All that said I am wondering what you think I should do maximize accuracy in the case prep department. Perhaps my attitude is all wrong in that I want to not go all out here or spend a grand and add ten steps to my reloading process. I have mostly used cheap brass (winchester or remington). Is there a reasonable way to make this brass good or am I better off spending more on better brass to begin with to save time and money in equipment.

I am not against spending more time and money reloading, just don't want to get too excessive here.

I would also only be doing this for a few guns, not all of them.

Thanks for the help in advance, and let me know what I need to clarify.

naja

In a nutshell, what brass prepping for match shooting means is to make all the cases as identical to one another as possible. You can start with cheap brass and weigh, measure, trim, sort, etc. or you can buy premium brass and shoot it right out of the box. Either way you will end up with good results. The first way takes time while the second way takes money. I don't know you so I have no way of knowing which of the two you have more of.

Now, having said all that, unless you have a really good barrel with a good chamber shooting really good bullets, brass prep doesn't mean a whole lot. JMHO

Ray

I would consider myself a 500 yard shooter as I have made 7 kills in 7 attemps on big game between 400 and 512 yards in the last 4-5 years.

I shoot 2 guns for BG a 270 & 338 and have used the 270 5 times and the 338 twice.

As far as case prep goes I use Winchester brass in the 270 and Federal nickel plated in the 338 in both cases I have tried Norma brass and have seen NO change in accuracy over the Win. or the federal, 1 I full lenght size every time I keep my cases trimmed to Min. and turn the cases necks which has improved the accuracy in my 270, I only use my cases for 3-4 reloading. 2 I size and clean the primer pockets and cases every time.

I weight the cases and keep them with in 5 grs or less of each other.

Other then that do alot of shooting and have a good scope.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
naja

In a nutshell, what brass prepping for match shooting means is to make all the cases as identical to one another as possible. You can start with cheap brass and weigh, measure, trim, sort, etc. or you can buy premium brass and shoot it right out of the box. Either way you will end up with good results. The first way takes time while the second way takes money. I don't know you so I have no way of knowing which of the two you have more of.

Now, having said all that, unless you have a really good barrel with a good chamber shooting really good bullets, brass prep doesn't mean a whole lot. JMHO

Ray

What Ray said, You can weigh your brass to keep it within a couple grains of each other, chamfer the inside of the flash hole may help, make sure your primer pockets are deep enough.
But the most important is to have concentric loads, which from my understanding is to have the brass concentric when sizing, bullets concentric, the latter being most important. If your bullets are as concentric as they can get, you don't need to match prep. At least thats the way I understood it from reading John Barsness article on "factors in accuracy, part II" over at http://www.24hourcampfire.com.
Aw heck, read this.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/reloading.html

quote:

Originally posted by naja302:
...Is there a reasonable way to make this brass good or am I better off spending more on better brass to begin with to save time and money in equipment.

I am not against spending more time and money reloading, just don't want to get too excessive here....

Hey Naja, Since I believe in Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) and not Neck Sizing(NS), I don't concern myself about "concentricity" at all. For those that do, I wish them the best and hope we get to shoot for the Best Group to see who buys the BBQ for Supper some day.

You can use the below for "all manufactured cases" whether they are expensive or not. I do believe someone mentioned Laupa drills their Flash Holes instead of punching, so theoretically the inside should not have a Burr. But I don't trust anything when it comes to my cases.

And, yes it probably would increase your Reloading time to do all the steps I do. I do it to get accuracy and confidence in my Final Loads. Use what you want and forget the rest.
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First off I fully Prep the entire "new" lot of 300-1000 cases.

1. I run the entire lot through the Full Length Resizer set to Partial-Full Length Resize(P-FLR) for my specific rifle and then tumble the lube off.

2. Square the Primer Pocket and cut the depth of it the same on all cases.

3. Deburr the Flash Holes.

4. Trim the cases to the same length with a Lee Case Length Gauge, which is less expensive, faster, easier to use and more accurate than the Lathe style cutters.

5. Deburr the outside of the Case-mouth.

6. Chamfer the inside of the Case-mouth with a Lyman VLD tool.

7. Polish the Case-mouth with "0000SteelWool" wrapped around an old worn-out 22cal brush.
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Now I'm ready to begin Weight Sorting and Recording.

1. Place a Case on the scale pan and weigh it to 0.1gr. Example: 168.4gr. If you do not own an electronic scale, it is well worth "borrowing" one from a Reloading buddy to do this with.

2. Write that weight on a sheet of Legal Paper - Sheet 1.

3. Take a small piece of 3M Magic Transparent Tape and place it on the Case-body.

4. Record the weight on the Tape.

NOTE: If for some reason you choose to use some tape other than 3M Magic Transparent, you have the possibility of leaving glue residue on the Case when you go to remove the Tape later on. Glue residue can be extremely difficult to remove and is best to avoid if possible.

5. Repeat the Weighing and Recording for the entire lot.

6. Locate the "lighest Case weight" on Sheet 1 and record that number at the top of Sheet 2.

7. Write in the ascending weights in 0.1gr increments and stop when you reach the "heaviest Case weight" on Sheet 1.

8. Start down Sheet 1 and put a Hash Mark by each appropriate weight on Sheet 2 for each case.

9. Count and verify that the number of Cases on Sheet 2 is the same as on Sheet 1.

10. Have a cold one or a few.

11. Make a few "copies" of Sheet 2.

Highlight the Lightest and Heaviest to run your "Initial Pressure Tests" with and compare them to each other. No need to waste "Weight Sorted Cases" on determining where the SAFE MAX is for a specific bullet weight in a specific rifle.

Now you can sit back at your leisure and "circle" how many cases you want in each group. I like groups of 9, 15 or 18. No need to pick 20 unless you just want to. You can end up with a bunch of "groups" that are exactly the same.

One last sorting is justifiable. When you load the cases and shoot them for the first time, if you get a "Flier", mark or separate that case. Shoot them once more and if the same case creates a Flier, relegate it for duty with the Pressure Testing cases.
---

There you go, just that "simple".

Thanks for the info Hot Core that is the kind of info I was looking for. I neck size mostly, what is partial full length sizing? Seems to me like it would be only sizing the neck. Why do prefer it.

Ray has good advise, I would also mention that you spend big dollars on brass and get no improvement. Lapua and RWS by my experience are the only brands of premium brass. Norma in my experience is no better than Winchester if as good.

As to case prep, for factory rifles with factory chambers, I feel that sorting by weight, cutting primer pockets and flash holes are the things to do. I would only do neck turning if you need to for neck clearance or if you are using a bushing die without an expander.

Personally, I just buy Lapua brass and save the pissing around of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Gabe

quote:

Originally posted by naja302:
Thanks for the info Hot Core that is the kind of info I was looking for. I neck size mostly, what is partial full length sizing? Seems to me like it would be only sizing the neck. Why do prefer it.

Hey Naja, I had previously set-up some answers for your question, so I'll just paste them in here for you.

If you will be hunting where Dangerous Game roams around, you need to focus on Full Length Resizing and forget all the rest. Your cases won't last as long, but it reduces the "chance" of having a problem during Loading and Ejecting.

I prefer P-FLR, because(as it says below), the CenterLine of the Cartridge is closer to the CenterLine of the Chamber than with any other method. Lots of folks do just fine with NSing and I wish them the best.

If you have a FL Die Set and a NS Die Set, you can do both Methods on 15-30 cases or ever how many you desire. Then have a buddy hand them to you at the Range so you do not know which ones he is handing you and run your own "Blind Comparison Test". If you know you pull one(flinch), go mark it and don't count it in the Composite Group. Then see which way works the best for you.

Just do the Group Shooting slow and focus on what you are doing so your concentration is at a peak.

Again, use what you want and trash the rest. I prefer P-FLRing, but have no argument with those that choose not to.

Here we go for the vast majority of Die Sets. This does not include the Lee Swaging/Crimping Die Sets which are unique unto themselves:

Full Length Resizing (FLR)
1. Reforms a Case to fit within any Chamber that meets SAAMI Specifications.
2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace.
3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment. On Fixed Ejector rifles, the Case lays on the bottom of the Chamber. On Spring Ejector rifles, the Case is skewed to the side of the Chamber where the Ejector is pushing against the Case Head.
4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it touches the Shell Holder on a raised Ram, lower the Ram, screw the FL Die in an additional 1/4 turn and set the FL Die Lock Ring.
5. You have short Case Life due to Incipient Case Head Separations.
6. Accuracy is generally acceptable to fine.
7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set.
8. Intended for use in Dangerous Game Rifles, semi-autos, pumps and most single shots.
9. You must Lube the cases and then remove it.
10. No need to ever Re-adjust the Fl Die Setting.

Partial-Full Length Resizing (P-FLR)
1. Custom fits a Case to a specific Chamber.
2. It has a slight "crush fit" to eliminate all Headspace.
3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the Chamber are forced to be in perfect alignment. The Case is held in Tension between the Bolt Face and Chamber Shoulder, regardless of the Ejector type.
4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it is about the thickness of a Nickel above the Shell Holder on a raised Ram. You Lube and Resize a Case, remove the Lube and try it in the Chamber. Lower the FL Die 1/8th turn or so and repeat the process. You might reach a point where you CAN NOT close the Bolt or where it is very difficult to close. Screw the FL Die in 1/16th turn and repeat until the Bolt closes with "snug" resistance. If you go too far, back the FL Die up 1/8th turn and try again on a different Case.
5. You have the longest possible Case Life due to Zero Headspace.
6. Accuracy is generally fine to excellent.
7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set.
8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles and some single shots.
9. You must Lube the cases and then remove it.
10. You may need to Fine Tune the FL Die adjustment the first couple of Reloads.

Partial-Neck Sizing (with a FL Die) (P-NS w/FL)
1. May or may not reform part of the Case Body depending on how closely the FL Die dimensions match-up with the Chamber dimensions and is best used in one specific Chamber.
2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace which varies with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close and then the Shoulder must be “Bumped Backâ€.
3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment, but become closer with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. On Fixed Ejector rifles, the Case lays on the bottom of the Chamber. On Spring Ejector rifles, the Case is skewed to the side of the Chamber where the Ejector is pushing against the Case Head.
4. You set the FL Die by screwing it in until it Resizes approximately 1/2 of the Case Neck or less.
5. You have shorter Case Life than P-FLR, but longer than FLR.
6. Accuracy is generally fine to very good.
7. You only need a Full Length Resizing Die Set.
8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles.
9. You may or may not need to Lube the cases and then remove it.
10. You may need to Fine Tune the FL Die adjustment the first couple of Reloads.

Neck Sizing (NS)
1. Only reforms the Case Neck and is best used in one specific Chamber.
2. It has some unknown amount of Headspace which varies with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close and then the Shoulder must be “Bumped Backâ€.
3. The CenterLine of the Case and the CenterLine of the chamber are not in alignment, but become closer with each shot until the Bolt will no longer close. On Fixed Ejector rifles, the Case lays on the bottom of the Chamber. On Spring Ejector rifles, the Case is skewed to the side of the Chamber where the Ejector is pushing against the Case Head.
4. You set the Neck Sizing Die by screwing it in until it Resizes any amount of the Case Neck you desire.
5. You have shorter Case Life than P-FLR, but longer than FLR.
6. Accuracy is generally fine and gets better with each shot "until" the Case Shoulder needs to be "Bumped Back" slightly.
7. You need both a Neck Sizing Die and will eventually need a Full Length Resizing Die unless you trash the Cases once they need the Case Shoulder moved back.
8. Intended for use in Bolt Action Rifles.
9. No need to Lube the cases.
10. No need to ever Re-adjust the NS Die Setting.

Best of luck to you.