New guy here,

getting ready to load some 45 acp and need someone to double check my figures as I have not loaded in 20 years. found bullseye powder locally and looked up the recipe off their website. they call for 5.7 grains for a 230 gr bullet RN. my Lee slide conversion for bullseye calls out 3cc dipper for 2.8 grains. is it proper to "double dip" the 3cc to get the 5.6 grains (close enough for target shot). my concern is any built in tolerance for the dipper will be multiplied by the multiple dips. working on getting a digital scale but not now. thanks in advance, really like reading the past posts and appreciate the lack of snootyness the professionals have over us ones that just want to go bang. It's nice not to be talked down too. this sound like the place for real help.

BTW: I hail from the great communist state of maryland, where they would love to round up all the guns and throw them in the bay, also after looking at your bench pictures I realized MD does not allow more than 5 LBS of powder, so you will not be getting a pic from me but i think most are impressive.

I've never been able to use the Lee Dippers consistently enough to load ammo with them. Maybe I need more practice or better technique, but I've found with the larger ones I get several tenths variance, which is more than I can accept. So I use one undersize to get close and then trickle the rest of the way. What I've heard works for some people is to scoop them to heaping and then scrape the top with a card. But like I said, I can't make them work. And I do think you're right to be concerned with magnifying the error---especially if you're no better at scooping than I am.

LWD

Welcome

Looking at the Alliant sight yes they list 5.7gr of Bullseye. However I would take that as a max load. Quickload calculates it just 400# below max. Looking at my Midway 45ACP manual for a FMJ 230 RN depending on brand the MAX load is 5.7 or 5.8grs of Bullseye. Starting load drop back a gr or more.

While 5.7 might be fine I sure wouldn't start with max load and head to the range.

When I was scooping about 40 years ago now I had a cheap scale. I would take a case and file it down so it threw the load I wanted.

quote:

my concern is any built in tolerance for the dipper will be multiplied by the multiple dips.

I agree that you will get double the variation.
Do any of your dippers get close to the needed charge? I have found the dippers always (in my experience at least) throw slightly light.

I would urge you to start out with a beam scale. The electronic scales are not capable of measureing individual flakes of Bullseye trickled into the pan. The electronic scales will usually not register for a few tenths of a grain and then will jump.
The electronic scale does work well for measuring the entire powder charge in one dump but not for trickled in additions.
The beam scales will measure small increases in charges with out the stick slip effect of the electronic versions.

FWIW, until they came up with compact, battery powered scales, the folks at the bench rest matches used dippers like the Lees. Like anything else, accuracy will depend on the repeatability of your technique.
I was at a BR match and watched a lady open up a tupperware bowl of powder, dredge her dipper through the powder, strike it off even with a credit card, and dump it in the case. IIRQ, she finished third.

[QUOTE]Do any of your dippers get close to the needed charge? I have found the dippers always (in my experience at least) throw slightly light.QUOTE]

well according to the slide chart
,3cc = 2.8
,5cc = 4.7
,7cc = 6.6
1,0cc = 9.4
.....so on..... almost seems like the scoops are staggered in cc size intentionally to use combinations as to cover more load sizes. Any thoughts?

guess I could try one scoop of the ,5cc
with the ,3cc scoop being so small i didn't need to scrap off level.
I loaded a few with 2 ,3cc scoops that were 0 to less than level and will fire them off tomorrow in the gravel pit. surely a few tenths of a grain can't make that much difference for home target or defense.

I have been shooting white box stuff from walmart for years and really don't know how to tell if my gun "likes" anything, seems to go bang for anything put in it...never had a misfire or jam. I'm shooting a Ruger p90

5.7 would be a very heavy load. the old rule of thumb for 45 & bullseye and 230 gr roundnose was always 3 gr for a target load and 5 for a field load. it does take different recoil springs for those 2 loads

quote:

5.7 would be a very heavy load. the old rule of thumb for 45 & bullseye and 230 gr roundnose was always 3 gr for a target load and 5 for a field load. it does take different recoil springs for those 2 loads

I got lazy over the years and ended up just a touch over 5 both target and field. Got used to the recoil and shot better with only one recoil level. Finally ran out of bullseye and been using Accurate for the last several years. No 5 for lead & FMJ and No 7 for hotter stuff.

A "FEW" tenths of bulleye can make a lot of difference if you happen to already be at your pistols max.

I can dip with Lee dippers as accurately as with my Lyman measure; been using them since 1968. But for bullseye, that sounds like a heavy load. I would use a slower powder. Why don't you make your own dipper to get exactly what you want; use a 9mm case with a wire handle soldered on. Trim to the measure you want. Use the dip technique taught by Lee; be uniform in your dipping, don't "double dip".

I decided not to test fire but to wait for my scale to arrive. use the scale to check my scooping abilities maybe work up a 5 gr load. if it shoots fine I'll go into production on the rest. 5.3gr is the 10% reduction from max...... yea I thought of having each recipe its own dipper, I'm not about to weigh 1000's rounds on the scale, at some point it needs to be turned into an assembly line.

With a scale you can maker your own dipper.

Some fill an existing dipper with some thing to reduce the space. You can make them with a empty cartridge case. You can also take a file to an oversize plastic case and cut it down to size.

For loading many rounds with small charges I like the RCBS lil dandy. Buy a rotor and forget it.

If you make more than one dipper be certain
to mark them. I loaded 22 hornet with a dipper.
When i bought a scale vertical spread was reduced.

Got my scale!!! a RCBS 505, arrived not calabrated and was a grain too heavy, had to remove a few flakes from under the pan to zero it. The lee dippers are weighing slightly (.3-.5gr) light across all my powder choices, unless it is my 1978 slide conversion chart, is there an updated one? mine has powders on it no longer being made. Alliant websight has 5.7 as max and My manual has 5.3 I wonder if my manual has already reduced the load by 10%?

BTW: BEAM SCALES ROCK !!!!! you can darn near measure a single flake

When I went away to College I could not take my big loading presses. So I got a Lee loader for my 264 Win Mag, and a Lyman tong tool for my 44 Mag rifle and handgun.

I used the Lee powder dippers. I had checked them with a scale to be sure of the exact powdercharges I was using.
I chose loads there were a comfortable distance from max, yet still shot great in my guns.

I would not recommend you "double dip" as others have stated it is not a good idea.

O put my powder in a fairly wide bowl, and made sure my "stroke" through the powder, and the "shake off the top" was consistant, which again I veryfied by a beam scale.

I loaded hundreds of the 264 Mag rounds and thousands of the 44 Mag rounds with this equipment, with no problems.

But I will again recommend you do not load max or near max loads with this technique.