There appears to be many people that use the terms "tack driver" or "one hole groups" when describing their rifles accuracy.I find the terms humourous and have to laugh aloud; as how many of these people have actually driven tacks with their rifle,and do they really expect us to believe that all of their bullets pass through the same hole?Come on guys,when you describing accuracy,use real descriptions such as actual group sizes and yardages

To me "One Hole" means a group with no paper remaining between bullet holes. Like this.
It does not mean that each bullet passed throughthe exact same hole.

Stubblejumper I can say with the upmost certainty that the first round out all of my rifles and handguns is a 1 holer! After that well.....

And as far as a tack driver, well I have shattered more than one tack holding my targets up!

Smedley

At 100yards I can aim at the colored plastic push pins used to hold up targets with a reasonable expectation of hitting them.

Pushpins are about 40 caliber hitting one with a good
varmint rifle at 100yards isn't a feat spectacularly unlikely enough to get excited about...

I know one guy who practices for varmint hunting by shooting at fired 12ga shotshells shoved through a hole in the bore, I can't recall ever seeing him miss the 12ga case
brass head but I've seen him do what he intended to do...
put his bullet THROUGH the primer... often enough to know it isn't a fluke when it happens.

Yes, that's putting a 22caliber bullet through an area not materially larger than a 30caliber bullet hole

"One Hole" on paper simply means that the holes overlap
and thus there is no paper web remaining between
two (or more holes) it does NOT imply that the bullet goes through the same hole and leaves a single caliber sized hole..... and it's easier to type "than enlarged through overlapping bullet holes"

As for bullets actually going through ONE hole in paper
I HAVE had it happen... Not often and not NEARLY
as often as I'd like... (three times as memory serves)
with my 223Rem700VSSF

I've shot a "one hole" group as defined above with an iron sighted lever rifle, though admittedly that group probably completely blew any chance I ever had of hitting the powerball lottery... LOL

AllanD

I have one particular rifle that earns me a lot of spare change at the range. I challenge guys that my rifle can shoot a 22 caliber bullet through one of their 30 caliber holes. After 2 or three times of doing so they assume I'm shooting off the paper. I ask them to call out clock positions and I proceed to clip the inside of their bullet hole at the appropriate clock position just enough to show. $1.00 a shot just to be fair; I hate to shake down rookies.

The rifle is a Savage single shot action with a Krieger barrel in 220 Swift. It routinely kills flies at 100 yds and beheads the little green lizards. Grasshoppers at 100? Too easy.

All you have to do is (a) have a gun that shoots in the teens and (b) a 24X or bigger scope with a 1/8 MOA dot and (c) learn to shoot "free recoil" from a rest. If you hold onto the gun it's 10 times harder. The load, BTW is a 55 gr Ballistic Tip jammed into the lands and 36 gr of RL-19. It only shoots about 3500 but it shoots those itty bitty groups.

My game of choice is 20ga shotshells (Yellow is easier to see) on the ground under the 200yd target stand.

I give anyone watching the choice of the struck shell flying left, right, or straight back.

that and making smilie faces of 1" target dots@100yd
Then there was the wiseass at the range one day with a 17cal wildcat/custom rifle who would wait until I finished making a "smilie faces" then shoot them between the eyes
(Note, it was a dead calm day)

People who don't have Varmint rifles don't understand
that shooting something in the eye @100yd isn't enough of a challenge, nor is shooting it in the pupil, calling your shot at 12, 9, 6 or 3 O'clock in the iris OTOH.... LOL

This last is of course humor, the entire head of a woodchuck explodes when struck so proving your shot went where claimed is impossible to prove....



AllanD

Good basic point. I think a lot of folks are limited more by what they think is impossible rather than what is possible for them to achieve.

quote:

People who don't have Varmint rifles don't understand
that shooting something in the eye @100yd isn't enough of a challenge, nor is shooting it in the pupil, calling your shot at 12, 9, 6 or 3 O'clock in the iris OTOH.... LOL

I do plenty of target shooting myself,and I do understand how accurate a person can be with proper equipment.However ,most of the "one hole group" and "tack driver" descriptions come from hunters shooting off the shelf hunting rifles and lower powered scopes,most using factory loads.Many of the people using the terms have never shot a sub 1/2" group in their life.

I'll buy the idea that a lot of people shoot one "one hole group" in the life of the gun and feel they now own a "one hole rifle". Those are the guys I make my money from.

Stumblejumper, you are right on the nose, people shooting like this should get together and start an Annie Okley type show. I have 9 guns built expressly for B.R. shooting, and have been shooting competativly for quite a few years, and to duplicate shooting the primer out of a shotgun shell on every shot is a bit for me to imagine. I most certainly would pay to see the show.
Sorry for the name screw up Stubble, just noticed it.

With some of buy guns not all I could be reasonaly sure of driving tacks and shooting groups that were one hole.

I did drive some blue flys one day they are about .250 long I ran 4 out of 5 dead to rights the last one I just wounded took his wing off instead. I guess the 223 just isn't gun enough for those flys.

Tried it with my 416 but couldn't tell if I hit them just one big hole in the target the 223 left the legs and wing parts around the hole.

Can sometimes one use to big a gun.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
There appears to be many people that use the terms "tack driver" or "one hole groups" when describing their rifles accuracy.I find the terms humourous and have to laugh aloud; as how many of these people have actually driven tacks with their rifle,and do they really expect us to believe that all of their bullets pass through the same hole?Come on guys,when you describing accuracy,use real descriptions such as actual group sizes and yardages

Stubble

I think you're being a little "much to do about nothing" here. "Tack driver" and "One hole group" are really figures of speech and everyone probably knows what the shooter meant. I'm sure no one believes we shoot a bull in the eye or aim at a mothball either.

Ray

I`ve found it sometimes easier to make "one" hole groups fireing 50 or more rounds at one target then just three or five. A "one holer" can mean alot of things, some full of the same thing. Size is what I like to see noted.

Now wait just a minute here. Just how big are those tacks you're talking about? They come in different sizes ya know.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Stumblejumper, you are right on the nose, people shooting like this should get together and start an Annie Okley type show. I have 9 guns built expressly for B.R. shooting, and have been shooting competativly for quite a few years, and to duplicate shooting the primer out of a shotgun shell on every shot is a bit for me to imagine. I most certainly would pay to see the show.

I will admit that there are days when I can't shoot my varmint rifle that well I have doubts that there are days when the rifle won't shoot that well.

last trip to the range I got up from the bench and handed a box with 20rounds in it to a friend and told him to have fun, but watch out, the trigger breaks at about 24ounces... while I walked off to find "the Men's tree".

Now he wants one, my intention when letting him try the rifle in the first place...

AllanD

quote:

I`ve found it sometimes easier to make "one" hole groups fireing 50 or more rounds at one target then just three or five. A "one holer" can mean alot of things, some full of the same thing. Size is what I like to see noted.

Exactly my point.

you'll love this.....and it's a true story so help me God!!!!!

I was at an indoor target range the other day....no...not handgun...it was archery!!!

I watched one guy shoot and noticed how steady he was.....how precise he shot and the determinating on his face....so I asked what he was shooting at.(as I couldn't see the targets)
He said " Thumb tacks".

I was thinking to myself.....what a croc of shit and promptly went to the bulletin board and retrieved a couple thumb tacks and asked if I might set his next two targets.

To my surpris he decided to call my bluff and said to "Go ahead"

I went down to the target amd set one on each side of the bull about four inches apart.

The archer fired two arrows and said....."Look at that"

Both thumb tacks had been hit and I'd guess the distance to be 50 feet.

I congratulated the archer and admitted my skepticism and he was laughing like mad.....he knew full well.

There are tacks with nearly 1/2" diameter heads and hitting one of those isn't extremely difficuly with any of my .223 rifles but most of my hunting rifles will require several shots to nick one.

I consider the term tack drivers and one hole groups as slang and understand it to mean "an accurate rifle" I agree that most couldn't prove it at the range.....just laugh it off until they prove it.

One hole group on the right with my varmint gun.

It's a Winchester M70 375 H&H magnum using a 4X scope. Normally I like to use at least 16X for group shooting

Stubblejumper ----- I can tell from your past posts that you shoot a lot. I love to shoot a hunting rifle, it is what I do instead of play golf. I do it at least three times a week weather permitting. I have a buddy who builds his own rifles that normally shoots with me, and we love every minute. I shoot some one hole groups with several of my hunting rifles, I don't have a real target rifle. When I say I shoot some, I certainly can't shoot them everytime I go out to shoot, but when I have a good day from my end and am shooting a finished load I stand a good chance of achieving one. I might add that some days I cannot buy one with a million dollars. I also have shot enough to know you can accidently shoot a one holer and then not repeat it later. I don't call a rifle a one holer unless I repeat it several times. ----- Now what is a one hole group to me. A three shot group with all holes touching each other with a magnum rifle, five hole group with a standard rifle. Many people think single hole when you mention a one hole group. Those are for the bench rest boys. I have a buddy that has many bench rest rifles and I have shot one of them and got single hole accuracy with a 40X scope. The first time I shot it was a learning experience, talk about crosshair wiggle, just try a 40x scope and you will agree. ----- I shoot some custom rifles that have been tweaked every way you can tweak them, but some of my rifles are stock that have never seen a gunsmith, If I can get a consistent one hole group I don't care which it is, the rifle will always be with in one of my vaults and have a place of honor. While not a long list it is several rifles and I will only mention one here, because I am very proud of my first precision shooting rifle that has been with me from New Mexico, to Colorado and Alaska, taking many Elk, Caribou and a 91/2 ft. Brown Bear. It is a post 64 Model 70 Winchester that I gave $160.00 for in 1973. I mounted a 3 X 9 Widefield Redfield scope on it with, of all things see thru mounts. It has shot several one hole groups for me, my son and grandson. It has never been touched by a gunsmith, is dented, worn and the blue kind of faded in spots, but that old rifle will still shoot a 180 grain Nosler Parition or North Fork at 3100 fps and put them in one hole when the shooter does his part. ----- Back to the one hole group. I never measure a group, I figure if I can put three touching each other, and I don't care what configuration the holes are in, what the hell is the use of a measurement. I keep all targets for future reference. They have load, temperature, date, chronograph tape (Oehler 35P) stapled to it. All bullets are hunting bullets, and all I will say about bullets is if you hunt and don't shoot the North Fork bullets, you better give them a try, if accuracy is your game and you want a tough bullet that will do any job. They are not all I shoot, you rifle will tell me what it likes, it is up to me to find it. ----- I shoot on my own private benchs of 100 and 200 yards, I would welcome anyone to a good day of shooting and talking the game. I Wolfe hunted your great Province near Robb a couple of years ago and love your beautiful country, hope to return someday. Good shooting.

quote:

All bullets are hunting bullets, and all I will say about bullets is if you hunt and don't shoot the North Fork bullets, you better give them a try, if accuracy is your game and you want a tough bullet that will do any job. They are not all I shoot, you rifle will tell me what it likes, it is up to me to find it.

I have actually recently switched to the 180gr tsx in my 300ultramags.They are extremely tough,are very accurate in my rifles,and offer a high ballistic co-efficient,a combination that I consider a winner.

This is getting OT but when I was a much younger man I shot NRA Indoor Pistol during the winter months. We had a 50 foot range in the basement of the Elementary School (that will give you an idea of how long ago it was). One day a group of archers challenged us to a match, pistol vs bow, for a small friendly wager. We quickly accepted. Bad decision on our part.

These 5-shot groups at 100 m were fired in a row with my rebarreled Ruger pictured in a former topic about accurizing Rugers. Don't these qualify ?

SJ,

Lighten up, It's just "Good Ole' Boy" slang.

Where I grew up, If you had a rifle that was accurate, She was a "Tack Driver."

Even though driving tacks at 30-50 yards w/ a rimfire is quite fun, it's still just a slang term.

Like several other posters, I consider one holers groups that tear the target paper so that all bullet holes form one hole whether it be symetrical or jagged, it's still one hole. It takes a pretty tight group to get one holers unless you are shooting a 50 cal or close to it.

Reloader

Not to be out done by the "one holer" and "tack driver" groups you totally left out the "I can cover it with a (dime, nickel, quarter, peso, euro, dish pan, trash can lid) group".
I think it shoudl be mandatory that we all have a chart listing the exact dimensions of each coin for reference....kinda give me a visual image of groups.

Haven't got any tack drivers but I have some accidents like the ones below once in a while.Compared to the shots I have fired very few are one holers.All of these were shot with factory rifles,the 223 does have a heavy barrel on it.

Hey guys, this is cyberspace. Your groups can be whatever size you want them to be.
As far as SJ saying, "this is MY terminology and YOU have to adhere to it", I feel about that like I feel about the guys that quote groups that are pretty unbelievable. I've got better things to worry about.
FWIW, I've TACK DRIVING rifles and ONE HOLER rifles and I have shot coin sized groups with a hunting rifle with a "normal" scopes.

Hmmmmmmm, after reading several of these post...If one says, That blonde is really hot!!! Is she going to spontaneosly combust?? How about this one... all the fish I caught were slabs....I wonder if that is 3000 or 4000 psi concrete? Broom finish?


Make every shot count.

Shotshell primers at 100 yards consistently. And no mention of wind flags----Hmmm.

I got my ass yelled at last week for this but again I say that if these guys were shooting in an organized shoot most would hold world records.

quote:

I got my ass yelled at last week for this but again I say that if these guys were shooting in an organized shoot most would hold world records.

Not compared to the results I've seen or heard of from Matches. Some of those guys can literally put amlmost all of there rounds through a tiny hole at 200 yards muchless 100 yards.

A one hole groups can be as big as .5" center to center even if only three rounds are fired. W/ the larger calibers even bigger.

As far as Tack drivers go, it's just slang but, where I'm from we used to have a blast shooting roofing tacks that were tacked into trees and boards w/ our rimfires, it was quite fun and you'd be surprised how many you could consistently hit at 30-50 yards of of a steady prop w/ a good 22.

Reloader

Reloader, compare side by side the group sizes that are on SOME of these posts with the results of I.B.S. or N.B.R.S.A. matches. Granted every once in a while everyone is going to shoot a really great group. but to say that it can be done at will is just rediculous. I am not discussing tack driving or one holers as a term, I think we all know what that means, just streight out group size.

I'm sure stubbljumper hadn't opened this thread if he had visited one of the benchrest sites as www.benchrest.com or Niko's site or visited a BR match: oneholer is not enough to b the winner: it needs BUGHOLES (to introduce another word to set stubblejumper aflame).

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
I got my ass yelled at last week for this but again I say that if these guys were shooting in an organized shoot most would hold world records.

That's why I don't go... the poor bench resters would start throwing $3,000+ rifles down the range in disgust!!! I would never want to see that, nor be the cause of it!!!

I drive tacks with my Win Model 70 Super Shadow 243 WSSM