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Apologies for the long post. Looking for knowledge and personal experience with these items. In specific those sold at American reloading.com. How good is the "Military" powder? is it worth ordering instead of commercial stuff with load data? Ginex Primers, Did a search and what i came up with is they are European and are commonly used in PPU ammo. Other than them being slightly harder than others such as cci, federal, etc i have found nothing backing their tolerances. Lastly, The pull down bullets. I placed an order for 124gr 9mm gold dots and i have to say, other than being dirty, they look untouched and are all withing weight tolerances. Looking into going into their pulldown 223/556 and 308/762 pending reviews. I have had very good customer service from Americanreloading thus far and unless a better site is pointed out i will probably going to stick with them. Thank you for the info, So far this site is very informative and i look forward to learning and sharing info. Apologies for the long post | ||
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I used kegs of wc844 wc852 and have kegs more of it to burn up. For some rifle/cartridges I find I have to use commercial powder to get the best results. But I use the military stuff when ever I can | |||
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Powder is fine; for pistol and military rifle bullets, the military ones are fine; remember they aren't match bullets. Fine for blasting. | |||
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What rounds are you loading and what are they being fired out of? What accuracy are you getting? Where did u get your load data? thank you | |||
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I have loaded probably 20 lbs of WC844 under a 55 fmj But this is just a banging load for 5.56 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Pull down military powder is on the market because a trained Military Ammunition Specialist examined that lot of ammunition and determined, through his written procedures, that lot of propellant was beyond its shelf life. I have no doubt that all American military pulldown powder was at Condition Code D when it was scrapped: Ammunition Surveillance Procedures SB 742-1 https://acc.dau.mil/adl/en-US/...42-1%20AIN47-13A.pdf Chapter 13 Propellant and Propelling Charges page 13-1 WARNING Nitrocellulose-based propellant can become thermally unstable as the age. The normal aging process of the propellants involves deterioration of the nitrocellulose with an accompanying generation of heat. At some point, the propellant may reach a state where heat is generated faster than it can be dissipated. The accumulation of heat can lead to combustion (autoignition). Chemical stabilizers are added to propellants to slow the aging process. In time, the stabilizer levels will drop to a point where the remaining effective stabilizer (RES) is not sufficient to prevent an accelerating rate of decomposition. When this point is reached, the propellant may autoigniet, with possible catastrophic results to property and life. Monitoring the stability level of each propellant lot is essential for continued safe storage. Page 13-5 , Table 13.2 Propellant Stability Codes. Stability Category A 0.30 or more Percent Effective Stabilizer Acceptable stabilizer loss: safe for continued storage C 0.29-0.20 Percent Effective Stabilizer Significant stabilizer loss. Lot does not represent an immediate hazard, but is approaching a potentially hazardous stability condition. Loss of stabilizer does adversely affect function in an uploaded configuration. Disposition instructions will be furnished by NAR. All stability category “C” assests on the installation must be reported in writing… One year after becoming stability category “C” a sample of the bulk propellant lot or the bulk-packed component lot will be retested. If the lot has not deteriorated to category “D”, it will be retested each year until it has been expended, or it has deteriorated to category “D”, at which point it will be demilitarized within 60 days. D Less than 0.20 Percent Effective Stabilizer Unacceptable stabilizer loss. Lots identified as stability category “D” present a potential safety hazard and are unsafe for continued storage as bulk, bulk-packed components , or as separate loading propellant chargers. Bulk propellant, bulk –packed components and separate loading propelling charges will be demilitarized within 60 days after notification of category “D” status. This is worth looking at: Dutch brochure on “The delicate matter of lifetime” https://www.tno.nl/media/1514/...duur_em420071617.pdf Before I knew this, I purchased at least 16 kegs of surplus powder, over three quarters I had to toss because the stuff had deteriorated to the point that I had 1) pressure problems, 2) obvious nitric acid outgassing, and 3) cracked case necks due to nitric acid gas in the case. Old gunpowder does not get any better as it ages. Because the powder grain deteriorates unevenly, combustion pressures rise due to burn rate instability. If you buy the stuff don’t expect it to sit around with it for another decade. Not only is the powder already past a reasonable shelf life, old gunpowder in bulk is prone to autocombustion: Military Surplus Powder autocombusting http://www.ar15.com/archive/to...tml?b=6&f=3&t=248538
http://forums.gunboards.com/sh...MR-5010-powder-users 1. 10-02-2009, 11:02 AM#6 Cincinnati Kid Platinum Bullet Member Join Date Dec 1969 Location Cincinnati, Ohio Posts 421
You may or may not have issues if you use the stuff up immediately, but don’t have any expectations for the long term. It is my considered opinion that old gunpowder at $209.00 a keg is not worth buying: at Graf’s, you can purchase a keg of AA 2520 for $169.99, IMR 4064 for $177.00, VV N140 for $226 https://www.grafs.com/retail/c...egoryId/3512/page/2? And you have a reasonable expectation that these powders will have a shelf life of 20 years for the double based and 45 years for the single based. | |||
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Thanks for the info on the pull down powder. There is also new, not pulled down, military surplus powder for sale at 200 for 8lbs of wc844. After looking around, I see 4064 is going for about the same. I'll be looking into 4064 and ar comp instead. | |||
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I looked at the ad and it does say new. I was sold some "new" military AA2520 around 2000, loaded a number of 30-06 cases in 2002, fired them Jan 2015, and this case is typical of over 50% of the cases that I fired. That is, the case neck cracked, the case body split, or the case neck came off.  While it is possible that the "new" military powder is new, it is also possible that it is old pull down, or out of spec powder that was rejected by the manufacturer. In any situation, once you buy it, you own it, and if it turns out to be a pig in a poke, it is your pig. | |||
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Note taken. For the price I'm just going to order ar comp or 4064. | |||
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I've been using surplus powders a long time. At this time I'm using perhaps 15 surplus powders. The only defect I've ever run into in 58 years was a jug of 4895. IT WAS TOTALLY ACIDIC !!! I did run into some click bangs with WCC844 and WCC846 when used in a wild cat that would hold a little over 100 grains of powder. Bang for the buck you can't beat surplus powders and I have a lot of data to back that up.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I have used a lot of wc820 in the past, about the same as H110/W296. No one seems to have it any more. American reloading.com's prices seem a bit high to me. You can get 4350, 4831, 4064 new at several places right now for less than they charge. C.G.B. | |||
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In reference to the prices, does anyone have a place that stocks the 223 62gr fusion bullets for less? On the powder topic, I am going to test some ar comp loads this weekend and probably settle on it or 4064 as my primary powder for 223/556 and 308/762 thank you for the info | |||
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IMR 4064 is an outstanding powder in the 308 Win, and will shoot little groups in the 223, but it is a little long grained for the 223 and won't throw well if you plan to load it in the 223 using a progressive press. I have and am using N140 in the 223 and I developed some excellent loads in the 308 Win. N140 has an appropriate pressure curve for gas guns, both AR 15 and AR10. If any of the 4895 series were available, I would recommend IMR 4895/H4895/AA 2495 as first choice in the 308 Win (the cartridge was developed with IMR 4895) and a top choice in the 223. The 4895 series of powders are shorter grained and throw better than IMR 4064. AA4064 is a short grained 4064, too slow in an AR15, but shoots great in 308 Win, and it appears, out of stock everywhere. | |||
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If I'm reading it right, their prices do include both shipping and HazMat fees. | |||
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their prices include shipping and hazmat fee. | |||
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I have a large supply of both the 147gr ball and the 163gr. armor piercing black tips. I load the 147gr. for 308 win. and the 163gr. in 30-06. I use 4895 as I shoot the 30-06 in my M1 Garand. Either of these loads are what I call "machine gun match" lots of inexpensive shooting. less than 5 cents for the 147gr, and 3 cents for the 163 AP's.. Still have several thouand of each. Love shooting the AP's, they shoot almost like Match bullets.  The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? | |||
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