Hi gang I wanted to report that I have had pretty good success with loads for my .270 since I started reloading this past summer with many submoa groups and a couple less than a half inch. Also I havent yet gone broke purchasing the various "thingys" that go along with this addiction.

I did notice that after loading only a few rounds I would check the balance on my beam scale that it would be out of zero. I would rebalance and after a few rounds it would be out of balance again. Is this normal for a beam scale? I do have a halogen light mounted over my work bench and I thought maybe the heat from the light was perhaps affecting the balance. I have been careful not to move the scale to a different location on the bench during each session. Standard deviation is still running about 20fps so i thought maybe I am running into a consistency issue on the loads. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks. Mike

small things like that heat lamp or even a small fan blowing air(even small amounts) across the scale can make a difference. Also remove the balance beam and make sure the fulcrum points/pockets are clean and free of any debris or oils. This can also have an effect on the consistency.

No that isn't normal, check to make sure the pan is clean before you rezero, put a couple pencil marks to locate your scale on the bench and use the dust cover for it. Dust seams to be the biggest factor for me, also maybe your leveling screw is turning as you place and remove the pan, a light hand here is the secret, maybe remove the leveling screw and give it a shot of brakecleaner, then replace it dry, no oil needed anywhere on the scale, check the fulcrum for dust and dirt.

A line width at zero is probably only 3 or 4 granules of powders. Sounds like you might have a little dust in the bearings.
I just inherited a RCBS 5-10 scale that did that.
I removed the beam and wiped everything with a soft cloth due to the heavy layer of dust. Then I used some compressed air to clear out the bearings and the beam notches. It performed normally after the clean up.

My dillon (Ohaus) scale when new would not maintain good "0" balance and I honed the knife edges with a fine toolmakers hone. It straightened out immediately. It's the only complaint I've ever had with Ohaus....and very simple to fix.....just lightly sharpen the knife edges!

volume measurement is the way to go. weighing each and every charge is an open invitation for inconsistencies like this.

quote:

volume measurement is the way to go.

TAZ
His velocity deviation may have nothing to do with his scale. It could his choice of powder or primers.
In any event a scale that does not go back to zero is a problem that need to be corrected.

Make sure the scale is on a level, flat surface.
My RCBS scale gets off a bit when I bump it. The surface of my bench is a bit rough. I put the scale on a heavy book, it stays calibrated better that way.

Ok gang thanks for the tips. I will give the scale a good cleaning. I hadnt thought about the dust being a problem. Come to think of it there are times I will have a fan running on the other side of the basement which could have impacted the scale. I will be more careful in the future. Thanks. Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

volume measurement is the way to go.

TAZ
His velocity deviation may have nothing to do with his scale. It could his choice of powder or primers.
In any event a scale that does not go back to zero is a problem that need to be corrected.

ireload - i know, i was just whacking the pinata a little bit!

i got to thinking last night, and my money would go on the lamp (heat expanding the beam etc.)

also, i looked in my lyman manual, and it said something about how any plastics OR styrofoam near a scale could cause a buildup of a static charge. that charge would be enough to throw off a scale from its zero.

i don't have the manual in front of me now, but that was the gist of it. it might be prudent to check and see if there are any plastcs or styfofoam near the scale.

Mike27--Dont know if you are weighing each and every charge--if so,that's a pain. If so,I'd get a powder measure and although they might be slower than most,the Belding and Mull is very accurate and will meter any powder I ever tried in it. If you are keeping them within 20 fps,don't see that as a problem.

Yes I have been weighing each and every charge and I agree it is a pain. : ) I was trying to be as exact as possible on each charge for consistency. About half of my groups have been less than an inch but I have had several groups in which 2 bullet holes are touching and the 3rd hole is maybe an inch or an inch and a half above. I have been careful to let the barrel cool between shots. I dont think my bench rest set up is good and I need to purchase or make a couple of adequate shooting bags. I do have the RCBS powder measure and use a trickler. I will do a search on the Belding and Mull. Thanks. Mike

It may be the scale, but it is more likely that you may not be viewing the line-up of the two "register" lines consistently.

It seems that with this scale, which I have, you MUST view the line up FROM EYE LEVEL. I've had mine over twenty years and report no problems.

I won't even ask if you are using the right "notch" or "hook" to hang your pan holder on.

" Normally " when beam scales go goofy . A, it's dirt in the fulcrum saddles , B it's the beams bent or some times just the fulcrum pivot points become worn out . Although this is rare if one has maintained the saddles .
I find it easy to fix any of these conditions by simply purchasing NEW Fulcrum pivot saddles !.

Clean everything well ! , wipe off with a dry cloth Beam and all . Pop those saddles or LOOK at them with a good light and magnifying lens
. If there suspect get new ones .

Make sure when Zeroing a balance beam scale your not having to raise or lower the adjusting foot too far . Find another spot on the bench if that's happening .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

I dont think my bench rest set up is good and I need to purchase or make a couple of adequate shooting bags.

The biggest "improvement" of my handloading, much greater accuracy, reduction of wasted components, fewer trips to the range etc was the purchase of a Hart Heavy Varmint bench rest and a set of protector bags exactly like the equipment benchrest shooters use. I have even fired a few one inch groups with metallic sights with a 100 year old Mauser.

I have been very careful to line up the register lines on each charge I mean if it is off a hair I will add or remove a single grain of powder to get it to line up when viewed at eye level.

Mike27 don't beat your self up over FPS deviation !.
Please try and remember this because I as several others have witnessed this many times .

Case in point powder & primer Std. deviation is Min. 5% !.

With that said I've been reloading for 40+ years now . I was ALWAYS under the assumption the least amount of FPS deviation lead to the tightest groupings !.

That is until a close friend & shooting buddy proved me WRONG !.

Prepped cases totally , weighed cases , powder charges and projectiles as near perfect as any human can do them . Deviation ALL under 9 FPS!.

Now here is what is going to start an argument But I SWEAR I was there and Ran the Chrony !.

Two excellent shooters Same Rifle Same loads near same results . Groups were opened up too 1.75-2.25" !. We then fired another series of cartridges that were over 70 FPS deviation from those bench 9 FPS rounds . Groups were .625-.720 ". M1 Garand 06 !!!!. We had similar results in an 03 just not as dramatic !.

This is in NO way an excuse not to load as accurate as possible !.

Other peoples results will always differ at least that's logical to assume . In MY case it didn't !.

My best groups with most of my weapons show 15-60 FPS deviations and group well . Point my .223 AR Bushmaster #10 shots a dime will cover and the deviation is all over the place !!!!. Go figure .Winchester Factory rounds 1.75 too 2.5" at best !. What ever case 25.5 BLC-2 and it's magic time .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...