I have nothing aganinst having plenty of choices dont get me wrong.
Sometimes on here though you see people say I wouldnt buy whatever caliber rifle because there are not enough bullets avaliable.

If you have a few good quality bullets that will take care of the needs you will be using a certain caliber for, how many more do you really need?

IMO guns like the .30-06 are not to double as varmint rifles. Find a big game load and stay with it.....

The older I get the more I look at my guns as single purpose rifles......one load per rifle.

Jarrod,

Two points here really, first is when I speak of bullet availablity I am talking about the range of bullet weights. I prefer 7mm over the 270 cal for this very reason, bottom line I want 175 gr bullets, or 160 gr in a 6.5 bore. The light bullets really don't interest me as much, I like heavy for caliber bullets, when I am hunting thich brush. Right, wrong or indifferent I like bullets with a min .280 SD and really want .3 in certian loads.

The second twist to this is rifles have personalities. I have run across very few bullets that just won't shoot in anything, but I have run across a lot of rifles that get picky between brands, ie: won't shoot Speers, but Hornady or Noslers work great ( or vice versa ). The variety of bullets helps in this regard, better selection is always good.

Your last statement about having a few good bullets is valid, providing your rifle likes them. But you might need to shop around to find those few good choices. I usually settle down on one or two bullets in my rifles after I have sorted them out. But I have duplicate rifles of one cartridge in my rifles, and different cartiridges of the same caliber. Example here is my 30 cals, 308, 30-06 and 30 mags, not sure exactly of the headcount but I have over a 1/2 dozen 30's. They all like different bullets, the 30 mags I use 200 Nosler partions, the 30-06's I feed 180 gr bullets and my 308 get a steady diet of 165 and 168 gr match bullets.

Bullet selection for the above mix run from 150 gr to 240 gr ( almost out of those ). This mix is why I am such a big 7mm, and 30 cal fan.

You need to take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt- there are a lot of experts out there who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I personaly like to not have to think about/try to remember what bullet I have in a particular rifle. I believe in knowing my yardage, knowing my tragectory and bullet placement. Keep it simple stupid!

My everyday deer rifle a wood stocked pre war mod 70 in .270 win, likes 130 TSX, it is dead on at 100 because of where/how I hunt. My travel .270 win rifle (classic, synthetic stocked) likes 140gr TSX. It is 2.5in high at 100. My .300 Win also classic mod 70 (also 2.5in high) I shoot 180gr TSX in it because the tragectory is similar to the above two .270s.

The type of bullet, SD, etc is pure bullshit. A plain jane Hornady interlock will kill em dead as good as any other magnadesignedtechno bullet around. As long as you have a not too light for caliber bullet, it's placement placement placement.

The best hunting tip I can give you is get a pair of those Leica (or any other) binocculars with a built in rangefinder- makes hunting simple. It's glass, click for range, pick up your gun and BOOM!

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
You need to take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt- there are a lot of experts out there who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I personaly like to not have to think about/try to remember what bullet I have in a particular rifle. I believe in knowing my yardage, knowing my tragectory and bullet placement. Keep it simple stupid!

My everyday deer rifle a wood stocked pre war mod 70 in .270 win, likes 130 TSX, it is dead on at 100 because of where/how I hunt. My travel .270 win rifle (classic, synthetic stocked) likes 140gr TSX. It is 2.5in high at 100. My .300 Win also classic mod 70 (also 2.5in high) I shoot 180gr TSX in it because the tragectory is similar to the above two .270s.

The type of bullet, SD, etc is pure bullshit. A plain jane Hornady interlock will kill em dead as good as any other magnadesignedtechno bullet around. As long as you have a not too light for caliber bullet, it's placement placement placement.

The best hunting tip I can give you is get a pair of those Leica (or any other) binocculars with a built in rangefinder- makes hunting simple. It's glass, click for range, pick up your gun and BOOM!

I agree with you 100%.

In my case, for 30 caliber, two bullets. I have found that in my 30-06 and 300 Win. Mag., I can use the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter and Nosler 180 gr. patition interchangably with the same powder charge. I can even intermix them, and from the bench, find no difference in the groups. This has worked out in three rifles chambered to the .300 Win. Mag. and five in 30-06. The ultimate in K.I.S.S. principle.
I discovered this when I used the Sierra bullets for the preliminary load work up prior to going to the Nolsers. When both loads worked at the same top loads, I compared them on target and five rounds of each went into the same group. I them mixed several rounds and the groups stayed the same. All I can say is ith has worked for me. YMMV.
Paul B.

Depends on the gun.
My 375 H&H needs 3 bullets, 300 grain soft and solids (for Africa some day)and a 260 grain partition for little stuff here in the states.
223, 22.250 just one bullet, they only do one thing.
243, two bullets, one for varmint and one medium game.

etc.

Different uses, different bullets.

I go with at least two per rifle.

One bullet for hunting and anything cheap for practice.

quote:

two bullets

Yes I can boil it down to that. 150 Gr NP 7mm , and a 200 gr 30 cal partition., but why?

My 308's are pure paper punchers, and 168 match bullets are what shoot little tiny holes. I wouldn't use that setup for hunting unless it was the only rifle in the safe, heavy rifle with crummy bullet performance, I bought one and built one as range guns and thats what I use them for solely.

My caliber do you mean cartridge or all 30 cals.

I find myself going to a differant cartridge

now days instead of differant bullets for the same rifle.

I no longer try and make my 06 into a varmint rifle. I have 4 differant bullets right now for my 416 but soon that is going to be settled on one a 350gr something.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I go with at least two per rifle.

One bullet for hunting and anything cheap for practice.

I don't understand that! Why practice with a bullet you are not going to hunt with. That makes absolutely no sense at all. You will have spent hours shooting countless times and have become trained to shoot a particular bullet, which you won't shoot at all when it counts. You might as well shoot your buddies gun.

If you're going to practice, well shit, practice with what you're gonna shoot.

quote:

The type of bullet, SD, etc is pure bullshit.

The kudu in the picture below was shot three times with a 30-06 and 180gr plain jane bullets and once with a cheapie bullet in a 243. Shots were taken from 60m to about 150m with the 30-06 and at about 100m with the 243. Shot placement with the 30-06 was such that, had the bullets not turned to dust on impact, penetration would have been through the bottom half of the chest cavity and at a variety of angles. Every shot taken with the 30-06 would have been a kill, if the bullet did not disintegrate. The shot with the 243 that brought the kudu down finally, was a neck shot. The entire exercise took almost three hours and required a horse to finish it. Total meat loss was 35kg (77lbs) at a cost of R350.00 ($58.00). This boils down to R87.50 ($14.58) per shot taken with the cheap, plain jane bullets. Seems to me that cheap bullets will cost you in the long run in lost and paid for animals or, as is the case here, in meat paid for and fed to the dogs.


Compare the meat damage (and loss) between a monometal bullet and a bonded core bullet in this comparison of six carcasses. If you pay for your game, paying a bit more for the bullet will consistently put you ahead, money wise.

If you hunt for free and do not mind following up on animals, or do not follow up at all when they run, it probably does not matter what you use.

some calibers not having a huge selection does play a part in caliber choice. For example look at how many 458 bullets there are compared to 470. Or 338 to 358, heck, 8mm too. But, in the calibers that I do own, I have practice bullets(I.E cheap), and hunting bullets(expensive). I do not worry too much about POI cause my hunting and practice loads shoot pretty close. I leave my scope zeroed for the hunting round, and that's that. Once in a while I will go to the 500yd range and shoot my hunting bullets to get a feel for the trajectory, but other than that the practice bullets get the nod at the range.

quote:

Why practice with a bullet you are not going to hunt with

Point here is practice. Some folks NEVER hunt, and other folks just like shooting.

Gets to be a damned expensive range session when I am using hunting bullets. Noslers run about $21 a box for fifty, Sierra Matchkings go for $19 for 100. One a good range session of 150 rounds thats about 1/2 the price ( which pays for powder ) and the Sierras are more accurate.

On my hunting rifles I pretty much one or two loads. 30 mags for me 1 load 200 gr partition. my 7x57 150 gr, and 175 gr with the most commonly used the 150 gr. My 280's get the same 150 gr Noslers. But I shoot a lot of 154 Hornady ammo in both those rifles. Factoring in bullet drop and all the rest of the technical stuff, the point of aim on those Hornady's is almost the same as the Noslers, some little number in the .10 difference, no I don't adjust the scopes, and every hunting rifle in my rack is set up +2 high. Only my target rifles are set to "0" at 100.

And yes Gixxer a 458 Win Mag is a perfect example of a rifle to set up for 2 bullet weights. 350-400 grs for North American game, 500 gr for big nasty stuff. Perfect example.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I go with at least two per rifle.

One bullet for hunting and anything cheap for practice.

I don't understand that! Why practice with a bullet you are not going to hunt with. That makes absolutely no sense at all. You will have spent hours shooting countless times and have become trained to shoot a particular bullet, which you won't shoot at all when it counts. You might as well shoot your buddies gun.

If you're going to practice, well shit, practice with what you're gonna shoot.

That is because a lot will either shoot the same point of impact or close to it and have about the same trajectory for about 1/3 the price that is why.

For serious game, I only have one bullet, the Nosler Partition. In .30-06 its the 180 or 220 grain, in the .270 it's the 130 grain, and in the 7mms, it's the 160 grain. When you simply positively have to stop it, use the best bullet you can afford. In mho, the 220 grain .30 caliber has been the ultimate stopper on plains game.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I go with at least two per rifle.

One bullet for hunting and anything cheap for practice.

I don't understand that! Why practice with a bullet you are not going to hunt with. That makes absolutely no sense at all. You will have spent hours shooting countless times and have become trained to shoot a particular bullet, which you won't shoot at all when it counts. You might as well shoot your buddies gun.

If you're going to practice, well shit, practice with what you're gonna shoot.

That is because a lot will either shoot the same point of impact or close to it and have about the same trajectory for about 1/3 the price that is why.

Yup, bullets that are one dollar apiece can get expensive real fast Those nosler seconds are definately the ticket for practice. Premium bullets for 7mm and 30cal's are generally less expensive than premiums @ .375 and up, so as long as I know what my hunting rounds/loads are going to do, I can shoot practice rounds all year long as long as I keep my weapon set up for the hunting stuff. Practice is about consistency and form. It bothers me not if my practice rounds make 1" groups 2 inches from where my hunting rounds go. At least they are still 1" groups.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I go with at least two per rifle.

One bullet for hunting and anything cheap for practice.

I don't understand that! Why practice with a bullet you are not going to hunt with. That makes absolutely no sense at all. You will have spent hours shooting countless times and have become trained to shoot a particular bullet, which you won't shoot at all when it counts. You might as well shoot your buddies gun.

If you're going to practice, well shit, practice with what you're gonna shoot.

That is funny. But I think I know what you mean.

For me I will load 200 grain Barnes TSX bullets in my 300 ultra. I will try about three powders and hopefully find something that will shoot around 3200fps with some accuracy. After I have found said load or something close I'll shoot a few groups now and then on paper with the TSX's but for the rest of the shooting in that rifle during the summer leading up to hunting season I will shoot whatever bullets and powder I have on hand and most of it will be offhand or from a field position at whatever is lying around at the range from 50 to 300 yards.

I load my practice rounds under max too. I have two 300 ultra mod 70's and plan to be able to use the same practice ammo in both rifles.

Same goes for my other rifles. I have a 240 WBY that I will work up a fast hunting load with the 85 barnes TSX should be 3400+. My practice load is a 100 hornady at 3000 fps.

I got some 115 barnes TSX for my 257 WBY that may go 3400 fps as well. But my practice load is a 120 hornady at 3000fps.

There isn't but a couple inches difference in trajectory or impact with a lot of the bullets I shoot so I never notice while shooting pop cans or propane tanks or whatever else is lying around at the range.

I'll get in enough practice on paper from 100-300 yards at the range with the hunting loads and I think shooting paper is boring anyway.

Sorry so long a post.

1

IV

Just my two cents worth - I like a lot of selection when I am developing loads for a new
cartridge. But when I have found the bullets that shoot that are also the right construction for the intended game and velocity, I seldom switch bullets after that. An example - I load Nosler 180 grain partitions in the 30-06. I have been doing that since 1960. When I barreled up a rifle in .221 Fireball I finally settled on 40 grain Nosler BT or Hornady 40 grainers, which ever is cheaper. Selection is great during development. After that I don't care.

The old Nosler Solid Base .277 130gr was the ultimate deer bullet, and it was cheap and accurate.

Jarrod,
I say the question is whether there are a sufficient variety of bullets for the caliber given its intended use.

What I mean, is if you are going to use if for buffalo, you need to have a good soft point and a good solid in a heavy bullet. Once, you could only get 270gr Speer SemiSpitzers for 9.3 here in the US. It really limited this great cartridge. Now you can get 232-320gr bullets, round nose, spitzer, Barnes, Woodleigh, Partitions and Ballistic Tips. It really makes the old cartridge sing.

You don't need too many, but you need enough. But what's enough? Kudude

I am with Old Elk Hunter. I am finding myself bulding another rifle when I want to change bullets LOL. I pick the rifle for the intended use. I buy two or three different bullets that will work for that application. The one that shoots the best gets the nod. If it is not broke do not fix it. The rest get burned up on practice and fireforming. I live on the east coast. If I was going west or to Africa for a combo hunt, I think two loads versus two rifles would be more practical. If you have the time and ambition to devolop 2 or 10 loads for one gun then go for it. Everytime you pull the trigger it will pay off when a game animal is in front of you or putting bullet #5 into a screamer group.

quote:

If you have the time and ambition to devolop 2 or 10 loads for one gun then go for it.

I have time for a couple, 10 yeah right.

A couple of good loads suffice.

Later this year I am really launching some development wotk I have been putting off for a while. New rifles, new calibers, really don't have time to fiddle with the stuff that works.

WHy is it I never seem to get caught up with reloading, if I ever got enough time off I bet I could disappear into my reloading room for two months, just coming out for sleep and grub and still not have it all caught up, seems like I get 500 or 1000 rounds loaded and fall 1500 behind. I have even quite loading certain calibers like 9mm so I could concentrate on the high dollar ones. Seems like the the labors of Hercules.

I'm with vapodog one really good load per rifle is plenty. Most calibers have a bullet that just works as in 160 grain 7mm, 180 .30, 286 9.3, 300 .375 and on and on.

When hunting ... one projectile and one load is all that's required ... but finding it is where choices are appreciated. Once a good load is found, 500 projectiles and 100 new cases will keep you hunting a long time.
Cheers...
Con

I use 150 gr Nosler BT's in my 30-06. They perform exceptionally well.I have never had to track anything, most game goes down in 5 to 10 yds. This is from shots from under the treestand to 200 yds. I picked the BT's because of reputation, the load works, so I stuck with it. With the Boss on the my Browning, I can dial in 0.5" groups all day long.
Most of the name brand bullets perform just as well. With time I can just about do that well with any bullet make or weight. Bullet make and bullet weight are just 2 of the many variables involved in reloading and exceptional accuracy. I can tinker with with seating depth, powder weights, neck tension, primer brands etc... till the cows come home to squeeze the group smaller. But will the game appreciate 0.5" groups any more than 0.75" or all the bullets going into the same hole?
I agree with FMC, It's all about placement and match the bullet wieght with game your after.

I am guilty of having a lot of different types of bullets around.. for a lot of calibers...

IN 22 caliber and 6mm I am really bad....22 cal being the worst....

does that make me a "Bullet Slut"?????

cheers
seafire